President Trump

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Re: President Trump

Post by specialties » Aug Fri 18, 2017 12:35 pm

Oh Geez, I was thinking of the Berkeley pajama boys dressing in Halloween isisis uniforms and the trouble they laid out in D.C. on Inauguration Day..
Do you ever look in the mirror before you post??
And now y'all claim that isisis is copying the punk car personnel crusher from the other day...
So y'all kill cops, shoot politicians and call for the assasination of the president, but zip point nada from the lame stream...
First it was the CHURCH, then the FAMILY, and now the NATION...

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Re: President Trump

Post by bobkat » Aug Fri 18, 2017 2:36 pm

MCasper wrote:
Aug Fri 18, 2017 11:30 am
The largest Neo-Nazi group in the USA is the National Socialist Movement

They are, as the Nazi's were, socialists.

By the news attention, I'm sure you could think there were millions of these losers?

According to the ADL ...
It has consistently maintained a membership of several hundred members.
MCasper the Nazi's were not socialists .You need to take a course what the nick name Nazis stood for in Germany . The actual name of the political party was know as National Socialist German Workers’ Party. This was a far right wing group that opposed socialism . The way they came to power was to promise Germans everything based on Nationalism .

From Wikipedia "The party emerged from the German nationalist, racist, and populist Freikorps paramilitary culture, which fought against the communist uprisings in post-World War I Germany.[6] The party was created as a means to draw workers away from communism and into völkisch nationalism.[7] Initially, Nazi political strategy focused on anti-big business, anti-bourgeois, and anti-capitalist rhetoric, although such aspects were later downplayed in order to gain the support of industrial entities, and in the 1930s the party's focus shifted to anti-Semitic and anti-Marxist themes"

Those themes are not socialist .

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Re: President Trump

Post by HokieAl » Aug Fri 18, 2017 4:50 pm

bobkat wrote:
Aug Fri 18, 2017 2:36 pm

Nazi political strategy focused on anti-big business, anti-bourgeois, and anti-capitalist rhetoric

Those themes are not socialist .
They're not?

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Re: President Trump

Post by Eric K » Aug Fri 18, 2017 4:54 pm

Vice channel/news has some good content. You should check it out.
Wether you agree or not agree with the person's views that seemed to be the highlight of the show it is a their 1st amendment right. Same with any other organization that may have similar but opposite views of said speaker.
The young black lady speaking of the master of Monticello looking down on her. I wonder if she would have the same feelings if they put a statue of the current gov. or mayor to replace it. Did not see either one of them in any video as violence was breaking out.
When Kessler was speaking and people from the crowd moved in on him. Notice the police just stood there looking on and when Kessler was walking away a guy assaults him. What a shame.
The scary thing is at the end is when the reporter is in the room with the white guy and he tells the reporter that more people are probably going to die.
I believe he is right unless cooler heads prevail.
Let's see if Walsh and Baker are standing in the crowd tomorrow.

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Re: President Trump

Post by MCasper » Aug Sat 19, 2017 6:49 am

bobkat wrote:
Aug Fri 18, 2017 2:36 pm
MCasper wrote:
Aug Fri 18, 2017 11:30 am
The largest Neo-Nazi group in the USA is the National Socialist Movement

They are, as the Nazi's were, socialists.

By the news attention, I'm sure you could think there were millions of these losers?

According to the ADL ...
It has consistently maintained a membership of several hundred members.
MCasper the Nazi's were not socialists .You need to take a course what the nick name Nazis stood for in Germany . The actual name of the political party was know as National Socialist German Workers’ Party. This was a far right wing group that opposed socialism . The way they came to power was to promise Germans everything based on Nationalism .

From Wikipedia "The party emerged from the German nationalist, racist, and populist Freikorps paramilitary culture, which fought against the communist uprisings in post-World War I Germany.[6] The party was created as a means to draw workers away from communism and into völkisch nationalism.[7] Initially, Nazi political strategy focused on anti-big business, anti-bourgeois, and anti-capitalist rhetoric, although such aspects were later downplayed in order to gain the support of industrial entities, and in the 1930s the party's focus shifted to anti-Semitic and anti-Marxist themes"

Those themes are not socialist .
As per usual, you need a history lesson ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPKibAI9eSQ
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Re: President Trump

Post by MCasper » Aug Sat 19, 2017 7:17 am

Nazi ideologist Gregor Strasser proclaimed:
We are socialists. We are enemies, deadly enemies, of today’s capitalist economic system with its exploitation of the economically weak, its unfair wage system, its immoral way of judging the worth of human beings in terms of their wealth and their money, instead of their responsibility and their performance, and we are determined to destroy this system whatever happens!

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/3 ... h-goldberg
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Re: President Trump

Post by bobkat » Aug Sat 19, 2017 8:33 am

MCasper I think you need to get in touch with the people that write the Merriam -Webster Dictionary and correct them.

Nazi
noun Na·zi \ˈnät-sē, ˈnat-\


Definition of Nazi

1 : a member of a German fascist party controlling Germany from 1933 to 1945 under Adolf Hitler

2 often not capitalized
a : one who espouses the beliefs and policies of the German Nazis : fascist
b : one who is likened to a German Nazi : a harshly domineering, dictatorial, or intolerant person a grammar nazi


Definition of Nazi for English Language Learners


: a member of a German political party that controlled Germany from 1933 to 1945 under Adolf Hitler

: an evil person who wants to use power to control and harm other people especially because of their race, religion, etc.




oh just for the record Germany practices socialism as does Canada and the UK. It is illegal in Germany to be a Nazi .

Drunk American punched for giving Nazi salute in Germany

http://nypost.com/2017/08/13/drunk-amer ... n-germany/

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Re: President Trump

Post by bobkat » Aug Sat 19, 2017 8:58 am

MCasper please explain this to everyone since you know so much about history.

Adolf Hitler was Chancellor of Germany from 1933 to 1945 . Now if he and his party were Socialist.Then please explain why he came to the aid of

Francisco Franco a well known Fascists in the Spanish Civil War. Then when WWII broke out why did Hilter join forces with another Fascists Benito Mussolini. Again explain to all of us if Hitler was a Socialist as you claim . Then why on June 22,1941 did he attack a fellow socialist Joseph Stalin .The leader of the Soviet Union. I wait for your history lesson . Just because some party uses the word Socialists in the name doesn't mean they are socialist.

here is a good explain that the name does not mean who they really are. We call this country in Asia North Korea .But their official name is The Democratic People's Republic of Korea. Using your logic I guess North Korea practices democracy. Waiting for your knowledge to explain everything .We don't need your alt right spin to blame people that believe opposite of you.

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Re: President Trump

Post by Joseph » Aug Sat 19, 2017 10:23 am

bobkat:

Which of Merriam-Webster's definition of socialism are you in line with?

"
1
: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2
a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property
b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
3
: a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done"

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism
Why do so many officials FEAR and kowtow to the Marshfield Airport gang?

What is the source of their power? Does it involve some kind of unseemly enterprise? A government entity?

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Re: President Trump

Post by specialties » Aug Sat 19, 2017 10:27 am

Bobcat,

Hate to break it to you but your kkk president Wilson collected all the nazi, socialist, communist phonemes and rolled them in to a new word called 'progressive' which today means regressive... He also hosted the opening show @ the whit house called 'birth of a nation', some film critic eh??

Wake up ya darned tool, the marxists lost last November's election and the bedrock Christians said 'You're Fired, Karl"..

Get on to yourself...

We need more capitalists in the family not only for hiring people to do legitimate work but to provide goods that people want besides taxes...

Yea kkk, go Wilson... same people who bring us artifa today, gudday komrad tool... Stalin ended up calling you 'usefulidiot'...

Spell check, bobcat...
First it was the CHURCH, then the FAMILY, and now the NATION...

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Re: President Trump

Post by bobkat » Aug Sat 19, 2017 11:21 am

specialties wrote:
Aug Sat 19, 2017 10:27 am
Bobcat,

Hate to break it to you but your kkk president Wilson collected all the nazi, socialist, communist phonemes and rolled them in to a new word called 'progressive' which today means regressive... He also hosted the opening show @ the whit house called 'birth of a nation', some film critic eh??
Specialties why do you always take so much liberty with your facts . When the movie Birth of a Nation was shown in the White House was there any nations on earth controlled by Nazi or Communists. The answer is no .

you really know nothing about either form of beliefs.

As I was just pointing it out to your leader MCasper that Nazi's were not socialist but Fascists. The alt right is trying to spin false story as fact.
Last edited by bobkat on Aug Sat 19, 2017 11:27 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: President Trump

Post by bobkat » Aug Sat 19, 2017 11:26 am

Joseph wrote:
Aug Sat 19, 2017 10:23 am
bobkat:

Which of Merriam-Webster's definition of socialism are you in line with?

"
1
: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2
a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property
b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
3
: a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done"

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism
Hey Joseph aka Mr Russia where did I say I support a socialist government. Just for the record using Mass Health is socialism . Having an Military ,Police and Fire Dept also mail service is all forms of socialism . Don't forget to tell all your friends that get Social Security and Medicare if the don't like socialism .Don't take the benefit. See how long they will live without.

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Re: President Trump

Post by Joseph » Aug Sat 19, 2017 12:12 pm

bobkat wrote:
Aug Sat 19, 2017 11:26 am
Joseph wrote:
Aug Sat 19, 2017 10:23 am
bobkat:

Which of Merriam-Webster's definition of socialism are you in line with?

"
1
: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2
a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property
b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
3
: a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done"

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism
Hey Joseph aka Mr Russia where did I say I support a socialist government. Just for the record using Mass Health is socialism . Having an Military ,Police and Fire Dept also mail service is all forms of socialism . Don't forget to tell all your friends that get Social Security and Medicare if the don't like socialism .Don't take the benefit. See how long they will live without.

Mr. Russia? Huh?

I am trying to understand what you consider to be socialism. Obviously these days there are blurry lines between what people call socialism and fascism. i did not ask what you support or want.
Why do so many officials FEAR and kowtow to the Marshfield Airport gang?

What is the source of their power? Does it involve some kind of unseemly enterprise? A government entity?

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Re: President Trump

Post by MCasper » Aug Sat 19, 2017 12:43 pm

Bob,

There have been 3 profound collectivist movements of the past 100 years ... Communism, Fascism, and Progressivism.

They all are based on socialism. They are all of the left. They all worship the state and they all subordinate the individual

Your definitions are distinctions without differences.
The Hitler regime introduced major changes in individual programs and program administration. In 1934 the regime dismantled the self-governance structure of all social insurance programs and appointed directors who reported to the central authorities. The regime made many improvements in social insurance programs and benefits, but these changes were conceived to serve the regime rather than the population. In 1938 artisans came to be covered under compulsory social insurance, and in 1941 public health insurance coverage was extended to pensioners. In 1942 all wage-earners regardless of occupation were covered by accident insurance, health care became unlimited, and maternity leave was extended to twelve fully paid weeks with job protection.
Does this sound like the left (as we know it now) or the right?
The Nazis themselves regarded the left-right convergence as integral to understanding fascism. Adolf Eichmann viewed National Socialism and communism as “quasi-siblings,” explaining in his memoirs that he “inclined towards the left and emphasized socialist aspects every bit as much as nationalist ones.” As late as 1944, Propaganda Minister Josef Goebbels publicly celebrated “our socialism,” reminding his war-weary subjects that Germany “alone [has] the best social welfare measures.” Contrast this, he advised, with the Jews, who were the very “incarnation of capitalism.”
A long one but worth it ...
What is socialism? It is a politico-economic philosophy that believes government must direct all major economic decisions by command, and thus all the means of production for the greater good, however defined. There are three major divisions of socialism, all antagonistic to each other. One is democratic socialism, that places the emphasis on democratic means, but then government is a tool for improving welfare and equality. A second division is Marxist-Leninism, which based on a “scientific theory” of dialectical materialism, sees the necessity of a dictatorship (“of the proletariat”) to create a classless society and universal equality. Then, there is the third division, or state socialism. This is a non-Marxist or anti-Marxist dictatorship that aims at near absolute economic control for the purpose of economic development and national power, all construed to benefit the people.

Mussolini’s fascism was a state socialism that was explicitly anti-Marx and aggressively nationalistic. Hitler’s National Socialism was state socialism at its worse. It not only shared the socialism of fascism, but was explicitly racist. In this it differs from the state socialism of Burma today, and that of some African and Arab dictatorships.

Two prevailing historical myths that the left has propagated successfully is that Hitler was a far right wing conservative and was democratically elected in 1933 (a blow at bourgeois democracy and conservatives). Actually, he was defeated twice in the national elections (he became chancellor in a smoke-filled-room appointment by those German politicians who thought they could control him — see “What? Hitler Was Not Elected?”) and as head of the National Socialist German Workers’ Party, he considered himself a socialist, and was one by the evidence of his writings and the his economic policies.

To be clear, National Socialism differs from Marxism in its nationalism, emphasis on folk history and culture, idolization of the leader, and its racism. But the Nazi and Marxist-Leninists shared a faith in government, an absolute ruler, totalitarian control over all significant economic and social matters for the good of the working man, concentration camps, and genocide/democide as an effective government policy (only in his last years did Stalin plan for his own Holocaust of the Jews).
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Re: President Trump

Post by specialties » Aug Sat 19, 2017 2:04 pm

bobcat,

Thanks to MCas who has the patience of Job with you I will say that all those names are the same thing, it all adds up to one big ball of mud and you are the only one here who believes in the nonsense of it all...

Recall around the time of your prez. Wilson ( the kkk socialist Versailles guy ) who was totally infatuated with Karl Marx and would have us in the same bag except for the Americans around at that time who put the kybosh on it all...

You have lost LARGE so get over it and yourself... The Christians put the marxists out of business last November, so long live our mighty King...


To recall; the same people who brought us the kkk are now handing out artifa, cair, isis, etc... You get it...

We the People believe in a much higher power than your pink state flunky system who owns you...
First it was the CHURCH, then the FAMILY, and now the NATION...

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Re: President Trump

Post by bobkat » Aug Sat 19, 2017 2:11 pm

MCasper sorry but haven't prove anything since you haven't source it .

Lets try this for a source
Weimar Political Parties


In the Weimar Republic the left consisted of the Communists (KPD) and the Social Democrats (SPD). The Center consisted of the Democratic party (DDP), the Catholic Center Party (Z) and the People’s Party (DVP). The right consisted of the German Nationalist Party (DNVP) and the National Socialist Party (NSDAP-Nazi). Unlike American political parties, German political parties had narrower bases of support generally based on class, occupation and religion. They were therefore less inclined to compromise and more inclined to have programs based on clear sets of ideas (ideologies).



National Socialist German Workers Party (NSDAP-Nazi)

The National Socialist German Workers Party (NSDAP-Nazi), founded in 1919 as the German Workers party, began its move toward prominence when Adolf Hitler emerged as its principal speaker and leader. The National Socialists initially attracted young men who had been in the military and had not been able to reintegrate themselves into the civilian society and economy. The party also drew support from members of the lower middle class, shopkeepers, artisans and white-collar workers. The party was unequivocally opposed to the Weimar Republic and in 1923 its members led by Hitler tried unsuccessfully to seize the government by force. After this failed attempt the party reverted to a strategy of gaining power through the electoral process without ever changing its fundamental opposition to democracy and republican government. Antisemitism and the threat that the Jews represented to Germany were at the core of the Nazi ideology.

During the later twenties, the base of National Socialist support expanded considerably. Although most of the top leaders of the party including Hitler were Catholic, and the party had begun in Catholic Munich, fewer Catholics proportionally voted for the party than did Protestants. This voting pattern was the result of the Catholic Church urging its members to avoid supporting the Nazis. This Catholic Church opposition to the Nazis would be dropped once Hitler achieved power. While the Nazis were slow to attract women supporters (program for women was summarized by “Children, the Kitchen and the Church”), women were the fastest growing group of supporters by the early 1930s. By 1932, the Nazis had become the most popular political party and they had the largest legislative delegation.

Funding for the Nazi Party

Money was a necessity for building and maintaining a large political organization. Hitler needed money to support paramilitary groups, stage rallies, publish newspapers, print posters and buy radio time. Historians have argued about how Hitler and the Nazis raised their money. Marxist historians starting with Franz Naumann in the 1940’s had argued that industrialists who hoped to manipulate him bought Hitler’s success because they feared communism. Even in the 1920s left wing critics of Hitler such as the artist John Heartfield had seen him as a creature of industrialists such as Hugo Stinnes. S. and J. Poole’s claim that it was Henry Ford who supplied the Nazis with funds. However most historians today take the position most clearly expressed by Henry Turner and dispute these claims. Turner argues that most industrialists and financiers supported more moderate political leaders such as Gustav Stresemann and only began to supply Hitler with money in the early 1930s when he looked like a winner and they saw the communist threat growing. Turner sees a generous party membership, often with very limited personal means, as the source of the major funding for the party during its growth period. Turner rejects the idea of any support for Hitler from Henry Ford.


https://www.facinghistory.org/weimar-re ... al-parties

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Re: President Trump

Post by specialties » Aug Sat 19, 2017 2:16 pm

The old manifesto play book, 'what's your source'... :lol:

It had best be saul alinski or we will not believe it!!!
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Re: President Trump

Post by MCasper » Aug Sat 19, 2017 2:28 pm

Bob define left and right if you would. Maybe that is your problem.
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Re: President Trump

Post by bobkat » Aug Sat 19, 2017 4:50 pm

Why is Nazism considered far-right in political terms?

National Socialism, colloquially termed "Nazism"[1] is generally viewed as being as far right on the political spectrum as you can get. Far right politics are generally characterized as having the following characteristics:

1: Authoritarian system of government

2: Nativism and xenophobia

3: Extreme revulsion towards communists and socialists

4: A general lack of belief in the concept of equality

“the left” is concerned with two core themes - equality and inclusion, most other concerns of the left are footnotes to these core themes. The two great ideologies of the Enlightenment (classical liberalism and socialism) both heavily focused on these themes. For socialists, equality meant social and economic equality - redistribution of wealth, equal education opportunities etc. For classical liberalism, equality meant equality of rights - property, equal treatment under law and so on.

The Nazis vehemently rejected these ideas.



Equality

They were not concerned with equality in either a socialist, or classical liberal sense. The Nazis favoured a society built upon a rigid hierarchical structure, where some were treated more favourably than others. It is this preference for hierarchy that places them on the right.


Inclusion

The left has traditionally been concerned with the worse off, the oppressed, the poor, minorities, the victimized etc. The left sought to bring these groups of people into the fold, and afford them the same treatment as everybody else. The Nazis were unquestionably opposed to such measures.

To summarize, the Nazis are considered far-right because they aggressively and invariably opposed the very foundation of left-wing politics - treating people equally in a minimally hierarchical society, and seeking to include those that would otherwise be discriminated against.



as for your question left vs right goes something like this

Politically left/right = much government/less government
Socially left/right = much social security/less social security
Economically left/right = controlled market/free market


Now when you take these views to the extremes. this is where these groups end up. The Neo-Nazi march and white supremacists the night before Unite The Right Rally. They were carrying torches, they were chanting slogans like “You will not replace us!” “White lives matter!” and “Jews will not replace us!”. I would say these people did not believe in inclusion and most people would say that these were extreme young white men on the right side of the spectrum .

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Re: President Trump

Post by Vlad_Rap » Aug Sat 19, 2017 5:22 pm

Why is Nazism considered far-right in political terms?

National Socialism, colloquially termed "Nazism"[1] is generally viewed as being as far right on the political spectrum as you can get. Far right politics are generally characterized as having the following characteristics:

1: Authoritarian system of government

2: Nativism and xenophobia

3: Extreme revulsion towards communists and socialists

4: A general lack of belief in the concept of equality
What do these definitions have to do with conservatism?
“the left” is concerned with two core themes - equality and inclusion, most other concerns of the left are footnotes to these core themes. The two great ideologies of the Enlightenment (classical liberalism and socialism) both heavily focused on these themes. For socialists, equality meant social and economic equality - redistribution of wealth, equal education opportunities etc. For classical liberalism, equality meant equality of rights - property, equal treatment under law and so on.
Oh brother! How do these terms relate to the behavior of Black Lives Matter over the past year or the progressive movement since ,say, 2012 ?
Last edited by Vlad_Rap on Aug Sat 19, 2017 5:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: President Trump

Post by MCasper » Aug Sat 19, 2017 5:25 pm

OK, let's test your theory ...
as for your question left vs right goes something like this

Politically left/right = much government/less government
Socially left/right = much social security/less social security
Economically left/right = controlled market/free market
Hitler ...

Much government.
Much social security.
Very controlled markets.

Yet ... right?

Think sir.
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Re: President Trump

Post by Eric K » Aug Sat 19, 2017 5:30 pm

OAN news channel 116 Fios
Charlotte: the other side
Check it out.

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Re: President Trump

Post by Vlad_Rap » Aug Sat 19, 2017 5:35 pm

How does modern day identity politics serve the nation?

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Re: President Trump

Post by Eric K » Aug Sat 19, 2017 6:01 pm

I missing your point?

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Re: President Trump

Post by bobkat » Aug Sat 19, 2017 6:07 pm

MCasper wrote:
Aug Sat 19, 2017 5:25 pm
OK, let's test your theory ...
as for your question left vs right goes something like this

Politically left/right = much government/less government
Socially left/right = much social security/less social security
Economically left/right = controlled market/free market
Hitler ...

Much government.
Much social security.
Very controlled markets.

Yet ... right?

Think sir.
MCasper no wrong again "“the left” is concerned with two core themes - equality and inclusion, most other concerns of the left are footnotes to these core themes. The two great ideologies of the Enlightenment (classical liberalism and socialism) both heavily focused on these themes. For socialists, equality meant social and economic equality - redistribution of wealth, equal education opportunities etc. For classical liberalism, equality meant equality of rights - property, equal treatment under law and so on.

The Nazis vehemently rejected these ideas."

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Re: President Trump

Post by bobkat » Aug Sat 19, 2017 6:15 pm

Vlad_Rap wrote:
Aug Sat 19, 2017 5:22 pm

What do these definitions have to do with conservatism?
Vlad_Rap I guess you haven't been reading all the posts. Back on page 23 you would find this,

MCasper wrote:
Aug Fri 18, 2017 11:30 am
The largest Neo-Nazi group in the USA is the National Socialist Movement

They are, as the Nazi's were, socialists.

By the news attention, I'm sure you could think there were millions of these losers?

According to the ADL ...
It has consistently maintained a membership of several hundred members.
MCasper has been using Alt-Right spin trying to say Nazi's are on the left not the far right ,even though the rest of the world call Nazis Fascists .

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Re: President Trump

Post by HokieAl » Aug Sat 19, 2017 9:51 pm

bobkat wrote:
Aug Sat 19, 2017 4:50 pm
Why is Nazism considered far-right in political terms?

1: Authoritarian system of government

No reason to read past the first point.

Right wants less govt.

Mark is on to something. Bob doesn't know his right from his left.

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Re: President Trump

Post by specialties » Aug Sun 20, 2017 2:12 am

equality and inclusion
:lol: except for white Christians... You know what Marx through Stalin did to the churches and their own culture...

It's 11pm, where are your values now??

Solzeneitzen has you covered, komrade...

Marx is dead, long live our King...
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Re: President Trump

Post by MCasper » Aug Sun 20, 2017 4:19 am

bobkat wrote:
Aug Sat 19, 2017 6:07 pm

MCasper no wrong again "“the left” is concerned with two core themes - equality and inclusion, most other concerns of the left are footnotes to these core themes. The two great ideologies of the Enlightenment (classical liberalism and socialism) both heavily focused on these themes. For socialists, equality meant social and economic equality - redistribution of wealth, equal education opportunities etc. For classical liberalism, equality meant equality of rights - property, equal treatment under law and so on.

The Nazis vehemently rejected these ideas."
I quoted YOUR own definition? But I'm wrong?

The easiest way to see the difference between modern left and modern right is the emphasis of the collective "good" vs individual rights ... The all powerful state vs the sovereign individual.

The Nazi's were socialists, but not Marxists ... just read their 25 point program. As to equality in Nazi Germany or Soviet Russian, as Orwell said; "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others".
- A proclamation by the pigs who control the government in the novel Animal Farm, by George Orwell.

In the final analysis, equality and inclusion have little to do with the goals of the left, they are simply new means to an old end. The goal of left is power. Nothing more.

BTW: Based on your definition, the D' party has been a radical right-wing party for the first 140 years of its 190-year history?

Own your party's foul history. The Nazi's did.
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Re: President Trump

Post by MCasper » Aug Sun 20, 2017 4:54 am

bobkat wrote:
Aug Sat 19, 2017 6:15 pm
MCasper has been using Alt-Right spin trying to say Nazi's are on the left not the far right ,even though the rest of the world call Nazis Fascists .
Fascism is left as well. Mussilini was a Marxist who, like Stalin, found the flaw in Marxism. People wouldn't revolt as workers of the world, but they would unite under a banner of Nationalism. Hence Mother Russia and The Fatherland. As Mussilini said:
Tomorrow, Fascists and communists, both persecuted by the police, may arrive at an agreement, sinking their differences until the time comes to share the spoils. I realise that though there are no political affinities between us, there are plenty of intellectual affinities. Like them, we believe in the necessity for a centralised and unitary state, imposing an iron discipline on everyone, but with the difference that they reach this conclusion through the idea of class, we through the idea of the nation.
- As quoted in The Myth of the Nation and the Vision of Revolution, Jacob Talmon, University of California Press (1981) p. 494, Mussolini's declaration near the end of 1921

Fascism establishes the real equality of individuals before the nation… the object of the regime in the economic field is to ensure higher social justice for the whole of the Italian people… What does social justice mean? It means work guaranteed, fair wages, decent homes, it means the possibility of continuous evolution and improvement. Nor is this enough. It means that the workers must enter more and more intimately into the productive process and share its necessary discipline… As the past century was the century of capitalist power, the twentieth century is the century of power and glory of labour.
- Four Speeches on the Corporate State, Rome, (1935)

Some still ask of us: what do you want? We answer with three words that summon up our entire program. Here they are…Italy, Republic, Socialization. . .Socialization is no other than the implantation of Italian Socialism.

- Speech given by Mussolini to a group of Milanese Fascist veterans on October 14, 1944.
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Re: President Trump

Post by MCasper » Aug Sun 20, 2017 7:46 am



Anyone know if they discontinued youtube embedding? If not, is there a new way to do it?
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Re: President Trump

Post by Vlad_Rap » Aug Sun 20, 2017 9:18 am

MCasper has been using Alt-Right spin trying to say Nazi's are on the left not the far right ,even though the rest of the world call Nazis Fascists .
Why is Fascism attached only to Nazism? Hillary was a fascist. She wanted to establish a world wide government ,ruled by the elite, to control the market and the means of production.

The value we attach to many of these political definitions seems to depend only on who happens to be in power and has the better propaganda mill.
Last edited by Vlad_Rap on Aug Sun 20, 2017 9:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: President Trump

Post by MCasper » Aug Sun 20, 2017 9:22 am

bobkat wrote:
Aug Sat 19, 2017 6:15 pm

MCasper has been using Alt-Right spin trying to say Nazi's are on the left not the far right ,even though the rest of the world call Nazis Fascists .
Actually, the "alt-right" agrees with you. They are wrong too. That is why conservatives loathe them.
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Re: President Trump

Post by Mac66 » Aug Mon 21, 2017 10:31 am

Didn't the Republicans used to care about wasteful government spending? Happy to cut fuel assistance, glad to pay for golf carts and vacations for the kids.

Forget Obama and his spending. This is on you guys-
Since his inauguration, Trump has taken seven trips to his estate in Mar-a-Lago, Fla., traveled to his Bedminster, N.J., golf club five times and returned to Trump Tower in Manhattan once.

Trump's frequent visits to his "winter White House" and "summer White House" are especially challenging for the agency, which must maintain a regular security infrastructure at each – while still allowing access to paying members and guests.

Always costly in manpower and equipment, the president's jaunts to Mar-a-Lago are estimated to cost at least $3 million each, based on a General Accounting Office estimate for similar travel by former President Obama. The Secret Service has spent some $60,000 on golf cart rentals alone this year to protect Trump at both Mar-a-Lago and Bedminster.

The president, First Lady Melania Trump and the couple's youngest son Barron – who maintained a separate detail in Trump Tower until June – aren't the only ones on the move with full-time security details in tow.

Trump's other sons, Trump Organization executives Donald Jr. and Eric, based in New York, also are covered by security details including when they travel frequently to promote Trump-branded properties in other countries.

A few examples: Earlier this year, Eric Trump's business travel to Uruguay cost the Secret Service nearly $100,000 just for hotel rooms. Other trips included the United Kingdom and the Dominican Republic. In February, both sons and their security details traveled to Vancouver for the opening of new Trump hotel there, and to Dubai to officially open a Trump International Golf Club.

In March, security details accompanied part of the family, including Ivanka Trump and husband Jared Kushner on a skiing vacation in Aspen, Colo. Even Tiffany Trump, the president's youngest daughter, took vacation to international locales such as Germany and Hungary with her boyfriend, which also require Secret Service protection.

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Re: President Trump

Post by HokieAl » Aug Mon 21, 2017 10:41 am

Mac66 wrote:
Aug Mon 21, 2017 10:31 am
Didn't the Republicans used to care about wasteful government spending? Happy to cut fuel assistance, glad to pay for golf carts and vacations for the kids.

Forget Obama and his spending. This is on you guys-

So you're saying that there should be no security?

So many whacko's on the left, they'd be at risk.

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Re: President Trump

Post by Mac66 » Aug Mon 21, 2017 10:51 am

So you're saying that there should be no security?
Of course not. For a guy who cared so much about the "little guy" during the campaign, he sure is happy to hit them with the bill for his kids vacations.

But now that the WH is getting renovated, maybe they can stay in together on Friday nights and have pizza or something, like the rest of us peasants.

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Re: President Trump

Post by Joseph » Aug Mon 21, 2017 10:52 am

At least Trump is going to buildings/destinations that are already paid for.

And, don't forget:

"The White House Friday rebuffed questions about the cost of Michelle Obama's trip with her mother and daughters to Italy and England next week and also wouldn't provide the agenda for Sasha and Malia or Obama's mother, Marian Robinson.

"I don't have anything I can give you on that," said the first lady's chief of staff, Tina Tchen"

And didn't "Granny" move into the White House and draw a government salary?

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/white ... le/2566187
Why do so many officials FEAR and kowtow to the Marshfield Airport gang?

What is the source of their power? Does it involve some kind of unseemly enterprise? A government entity?

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Re: President Trump

Post by HokieAl » Aug Mon 21, 2017 10:54 am

Joseph wrote:
Aug Mon 21, 2017 10:52 am

And didn't "Granny" move into the White House and draw a government salary?

Wasn't she babysitting teenagers for $180k/year?

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Re: President Trump

Post by HokieAl » Aug Mon 21, 2017 10:55 am

Mac66 wrote:
Aug Mon 21, 2017 10:51 am


Of course not. For a guy who cared so much about the "little guy" during the campaign, he sure is happy to hit them with the bill for his kids vacations.

I haven't complained once about his druggie daughter following in daddy's footsteps and going to Harvard. Security there won't be cheap.

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Re: President Trump

Post by Mac66 » Aug Mon 21, 2017 11:11 am

Fact check time:
Under the direction of the Secretary of Homeland Security, the United States Secret Service is authorized to protect the following persons:
(1) The President, the Vice President (or other officer next in the order of succession to the Office of President), the President-elect, and the Vice President-elect.
(2) The immediate families of those individuals listed in paragraph (1).
(3) Former Presidents and their spouses for their lifetimes, except that protection of a spouse shall terminate in the event of remarriage.
(4) Children of a former President who are under 16 years of age.
(5) Visiting heads of foreign states or foreign governments.
(6) Other distinguished foreign visitors to the United States and official representatives of the United States performing special missions abroad when the President directs that such protection be provided.
There you have it. Harvard and her parents, not the Secret Service, will worry about her.

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