Paris and the Destruction of Christian European Culture

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HokieAl
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Re: Paris and the Destruction of Christian European Culture

Post by HokieAl » Nov Fri 20, 2015 4:22 pm

MCasper wrote: 1) Trump didn't come up with that plan. A reporter from the Hill said that. Intentional distortion, again passed on by you.
It's sad that in order to get the real story, digging must be done to wade past the distortion put out there.
Yahoo News asked Trump whether this level of tracking might require registering Muslims in a database or giving them a form of special identification that noted their religion. He wouldn’t rule it out.
Without seeing the transcript of the interview or hearing the audio, it's impossible to know if even the above is a distortion. They presented him with the idea, and he may have skipped on to the next question. And from that they get "he wouldn't rule it out". And from that they infer that he wants muslims to wear special IDs.

https://www.yahoo.com/politics/donald-t ... 78070.html

SJR

Re: Paris and the Destruction of Christian European Culture

Post by SJR » Nov Fri 20, 2015 5:41 pm

Mac66 wrote:
... Representative Seth Moulton of Salem, who voted against the bill, said ... “I fully support increasing the security and effectiveness of the refugee program, but the bill on the floor today was not a serious effort to do so,” Moulton said. “It was a counterproductive measure that would add needless red tape to an already strong process.”


Typical liberal phony, ... I fully support increasing the security and effectiveness of the refugee program ... then the same disingenuous bastard says it is "needless (to do so because it's) an already strong process.”



Shorter ... I fully support it, but I don't really support it because it isn't needed ...

Dizzying stupidity on display.


I am assuming that you have more experience on

the subject than Congressman Moulton? What he said was that the measures in the bill before the house that day were not effective changes. It makes sense. Someone can fully support increasing security and effectiveness of something and then think what is being proposed is not accomplishing that.

Then you call him stupid?

A Harvard graduate, a Marine Combat officer and then what does he do, he puts his money where his mouth was by taking in an Iraqi refugee after serving in Iraq, but go ahead and call him stupid. What are your life's accomplishments that make you so superior?

SJR

Re: Paris and the Destruction of Christian European Culture

Post by SJR » Nov Fri 20, 2015 5:46 pm

How about the destruction of the American culture?

You can defend and admire Donald Trump if you want to but he

1. Thinks we should close all mosques.
2. Deport Syrians that came to this country legally.
3. Is open to making muslims wear identification badges.


You mean of course like the Jewish star of the holocaust.

This will destroy American culture.

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Re: Paris and the Destruction of Christian European Culture

Post by Mac66 » Nov Fri 20, 2015 5:49 pm

Back to the real world.
How do refugees come to the United States?

Potential refugees first apply for refugee status through the United Nations High Commission for Refugees (UNHCR), the international body in charge of protecting and assisting refugees.

The UNHCR essentially decides who merits refugee status based on the parameters laid out in the 1951 Refugee Convention, which states that a refugee is someone who "owing to a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion, is outside the country of his nationality, and is unable to, or owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail himself of the protection of that country."

If it's demonstrated that the refugee in question meets the above conditions, the applicant may be referred by the UNHRC for resettlement in a third country, such as the United States, where he or she will be given legal resident status and eventually be able to apply for citizenship.

After the UNHCR refers a refugee applicant to the United States, the application is processed by a federally funded Resettlement Support Center, which gathers information about the candidate to prepare for an intensive screening process, which includes an interview, a medical evaluation and an interagency security screening process aimed at ensuring the refugee does not pose a threat to the United States.

The average processing time for refugee applications is 18 to 24 months, but Syrian applications can take significantly longer because of security concerns and difficulties in verifying their information.


Once they've completed that part of the process, the refugee is paired with a resettlement agency in the United States to assist in his or her transition to the country. That organization provides support services, such as language and vocational training, as well as monetary assistance for housing and other necessities.

What's the security vetting process like?

Much attention has been focused on the security vetting refugees must go through before they come to the United States, particularly after it was revealed that one of the terrorists in the Paris attacks entered Europe through a refugee processing center.

Several federal agencies, including the State Department, the Department of Homeland Security, the Defense Department, the National Counterterrorism Center and the Federal Bureau of Investigation, are involved in the process, which Deputy State Department Spokesman Mark Toner recently called, "the most stringent security process for anyone entering the United States."


These agencies use biographical and biometric information about applicants to conduct a background check and make sure applicants really are who they say they are.

The applicant is interviewed by a DHS officer with training in this screening process as well as specialized training for Syrian and Iraqi refugee cases.

And refugees from Syria actually go through another layer of screening, called the Syria Enhanced Review process.

"With the Syrian program, we've benefited from our years of experience in vetting Iraqi refugee applicants," a senior administration official recently told reporters. "And so the partnerships we have today and the security checks we have today really are more robust because of the experience that we've had since the beginning of large-scale Iraqi processing in 2007."

Another senior administration official noted that the refugee screening process is constantly refined.

What are the challenges associated with vetting these refugees?

Given the abysmal security situation in Syria and the fact that the United States does not maintain a permanent diplomatic presence in the country, it's sometimes difficult for U.S. authorities to gather the information they need to thoroughly vet a Syrian applicant.

FBI Director James Comey hit on the issue at a congressional hearing last month, when he told lawmakers, "If someone has never made a ripple in the pond in Syria in a way that would get their identity or their interest reflected in our database, we can query our database until the cows come home, but there will be nothing show up because we have no record of them."

This particularly comes into play when trying to evaluate an applicant's criminal history.

"In terms of criminal history, we do the best we can with the resources that we have," one senior administration official said.

Another official emphasized that the vetting process is a holistic one, and they try to take a broader view of an applicant with the available information they're about to aggregate and verify.

How many refugees have been admitted to the United States?

U.S. government data shows that just under 2,200 Syrian refugees have been admitted into the United States since the civil war broke out in March of 2011, and the vast majority of those were in the last year.

The administration has acknowledged that processing resettlement applications is a slow and laborious task, which has kept the United States from accepting as many applicants as it would like to.

But the pace of admissions is growing as the United States commits more resources to the endeavor.

What do we know about the refugees admitted so far?

According to senior administration officials, more than half of the Syrian refugees admitted into the U.S. so far are children.

"Single men of combat age" represent only 2% of those admitted and the elderly comprise another 2.5%. The male/female breakdown is "roughly" 50/50.

The approval rate for Syrian refugees so far is a little over 50%, although the official noted that those not included in this pool include both rejected cases and pending cases, so the approval rate is expected to go up.

Where are these refugees?

The Syrian refugees who have been admitted into the United States so far are spread out over 36 states in 138 cities and towns.

California has accepted the most Syrian refugees (252), followed by Texas (242) and Michigan (207).

Fourteen states and the District of Columbia have not admitted any refugees, but that doesn't necessarily reflect a lack of will. Resettlement locations are determined based on a number of factors, including family ties, the size of the local immigrant community and the ability of local resettlement agencies to accommodate new cases.

Officials also take into account the unemployment rate of the area to ensure refugees are able to find work and begin supporting themselves.

How many will be admitted in the future?

As the Syrian refugee crisis in Europe and the Middle East became more dire over the summer, the Obama administration decided to re-evaluate how many Syrian refugees could be admitted.

Ultimately, the President decided to set a goal of 10,000 for the current fiscal year, which goes until October 2016.

In order to accommodate these additional Syrian refugees, the administration upped the total number of refugees it would allow in FY2016 to 85,000, with plans to increase it to 100,000 in FY2017.

But there are significant challenges associated with increasing the quota.

As noted above, the vetting process for Syrian refugees is intensive and plagued by gaps in information.

In order to meet the 10,000 quota it has set, the administration will have to admit five and a half times more Syrian refugees in the coming year than it admitted in the previous 4½ years combined.

Who decides the quota?

The Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965 sets fairly clear guidelines for how the government can set and change refugee admissions quotas.

Per section 207, the President has the authority to set the annual number, following "appropriate consultation" with members of Congress.

This is done at the start of the fiscal year but can be revisited midyear in cases where "an unforeseen emergency refugee situation exists" and the admission of refugees in response to that emergency "is justified by grave humanitarian concerns or is otherwise in the national interest."

In that situation, the President can amend the number of refugees allowed prior to the start of the next fiscal year, again in consultation with Congress, essentially briefing the lawmakers.

My governor wants to stop admitting Syria refugees. Is that allowed?

Over half of U.S. governors, most of them Republicans, announced in the aftermath of the Paris attacks that their states would not accept any further refugees from Syria. But it's unclear whether they have the legal authority to do this.

"This is a federal program carried out under the authority of federal law," one senior administration official noted, "and refugees arriving in the U.S. are protected by the Constitution and federal law."

Refugees are required to adjust their status to become legal permanent residents of the United States within one year of their arrival, at which point they are free to move anywhere in the country, although the official noted some specific benefits may only be available in the state where they were originally resettled.

But experts tell CNN that while the states may not have the legal authority to block their borders, state agencies have authority to make the process of accepting refugees much more difficult by cutting state and local funding.

"I think the entire program is contingent on the support of the American people," the official acknowledged. "It is contingent, as all programs in the United States government are, on funding from Congress."

Now lawmakers are weighing in with proposals to block Syrian refugee funding entirely, which would have the effect of freezing their absorption.

This step presents its own challenges, since funding for Syrian refugees is allocated along with funds to support refugees from other countries.

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Re: Paris and the Destruction of Christian European Culture

Post by Mac66 » Nov Fri 20, 2015 5:57 pm

Carson:
"If there is a rabid dog running around your neighborhood, you're probably not going to assume something good about that dog,” Carson, a front-runner in some opinion polls, said Thursday at a campaign event in Mobile, Alabama.

"By the same token, we have to have in place screening mechanisms that allow us to determine who the mad dogs are, quite frankly," the retired neurosurgeon said, criticizing President Barack Obama's plan to admit 10,000 Syrian refugees within a year.
Where did he mention isis?

Trump:
a separate exchange with NBC News muddied the picture of his position further.

The reporter initially asked Trump whether there should be a database to track Muslims.

“We should have a lot of systems,” Trump responded, but then went on to tout the importance of a strong border and a border wall. Asked whether he would like to implement that, Trump responded:

“I would certainly implement that. Absolutely.”

That single line was swiftly interpreted in several news stories as Trump’s endorsement of a database for Muslims, in turn prompting a widespread backlash. Some stories even stated that Trump had proposed a “plan” to register Muslims in a database.

However, in the NBC News exchange, Trump appeared to be referring in that single line to border and immigration security measures, because he then said the effect would be, “It would stop people from coming in illegally.”

Yet the reporter went on to ask Trump directly, once again, about a database for Muslims, and Trump did not dismiss the idea.

Instead, when asked how to do it, Trump said: “It would be just good management.”

Asked if those running it would have to go to mosques, he said: “Different places. You sign them up … but it’s all about management.”
At worst, he wants Muslim registration. At best, he's suggestible and doesn't know what he wants, and screwed up in the moment.

And now he's using Twitter to spin his way out. It's what he does.

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Re: Paris and the Destruction of Christian European Culture

Post by MCasper » Nov Sat 21, 2015 4:45 am

SJR wrote: I am assuming that you have more experience on the subject than Congressman Moulton? What he said was that the measures in the bill before the house that day were not effective changes. It makes sense. Someone can fully support increasing security and effectiveness of something and then think what is being proposed is not accomplishing that.

Then you call him stupid?

A Harvard graduate, a Marine Combat officer and then what does he do, he puts his money where his mouth was by taking in an Iraqi refugee after serving in Iraq, but go ahead and call him stupid. What are your life's accomplishments that make you so superior?
I retract stupidity and will go back to phony. Stupid was a very inexact and overly derogatory choice of words. My bad.

But to the rest of you post ... What a load of horse droppings. You can be educated (he is) yet say something phony. You can be a hero (he is) and say something phony. You can be a caring and decent man (he is) and say something phony.

The bill was to strengthen the vetting process to keep our country safer. He said first that he was in favor of that goal. He seemingly agreed it was needed? But he didn't then say what would be a better fix, or how they could improve the proposed bill ... He said it was needless to alter an "already strong process."

Take the above paragraph and substitute 2010 and the ACA. Even though the GOP wanted to do something different, offered to help fix it, it is still the mindless retort of the left to scream "what do you propose?" See the phony argument now?

Take the war hero angle and make it John McCain ... did you ever think he said something phony? Or even stupid?

In the end, the GOP house is proposing a compromise. Latest polls say that only 28% of Americans want the Syrian refugees at all. The GOP bill asks the people in the know to sign off before bringing them ... but to bring them in the end. That is what they are supposed to be doing. Finding ways to do the things we need or want to do in a way the people will accept.

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[img]http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:iOO63jD1fxN82M:http://www.usca.edu/polisci/apls201s/q-photo-we-the-people-american-constitution.jpg[/img]

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Re: Paris and the Destruction of Christian European Culture

Post by MCasper » Nov Sat 21, 2015 4:46 am

SJR wrote:How about the destruction of the American culture?

You can defend and admire Donald Trump if you want to but he

1. Thinks we should close all mosques.
2. Deport Syrians that came to this country legally.
3. Is open to making muslims wear identification badges.


You mean of course like the Jewish star of the holocaust.

This will destroy American culture.
Every word of your post is a lie. Including the part that I admire Trump, my 9th favorite GOP candidate.
[img]http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:iOO63jD1fxN82M:http://www.usca.edu/polisci/apls201s/q-photo-we-the-people-american-constitution.jpg[/img]

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Re: Paris and the Destruction of Christian European Culture

Post by MCasper » Nov Sat 21, 2015 4:54 am

Mac66 wrote:Carson:
"If there is a rabid dog running around your neighborhood, you're probably not going to assume something good about that dog,” Carson, a front-runner in some opinion polls, said Thursday at a campaign event in Mobile, Alabama.

"By the same token, we have to have in place screening mechanisms that allow us to determine who the mad dogs are, quite frankly," the retired neurosurgeon said, criticizing President Barack Obama's plan to admit 10,000 Syrian refugees within a year.
Where did he mention isis?

...
The subject of the discussion was Isis infiltration of refugees. Here is the part that contains the selected quotes you provided + the part right after the cropped quotes that you post here that put the lie to the inference of your first post on this topic. The last part makes your post a calculated falsehood.

[img]http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:iOO63jD1fxN82M:http://www.usca.edu/polisci/apls201s/q-photo-we-the-people-american-constitution.jpg[/img]

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Re: Paris and the Destruction of Christian European Culture

Post by specialties » Nov Sat 21, 2015 5:44 am

Unkle Ben adds 'intellect' to the mix...

Cruz - Trump - Ben makes it a 3 way here...

Rabid dogs have to go and only now do some of the socially acceptable Muslims reject those dogs...
First it was the CHURCH, then the FAMILY, and now the NATION...

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Re: Paris and the Destruction of Christian European Culture

Post by Mac66 » Nov Sat 21, 2015 7:53 am

a calculated falsehood.
At the same token, we have to have them trace screening mechanisms that allow us to determine who the mad dogs -- who are the people who want to come in here and hurt us and destroy us,” Carson said. “Until we know how to do that, just like it would be foolish to put your child out knowing that was going on."
Is this the part you said I lied about?

My point, a simple one really you insist on ignoring: Carson says we don't have a process. We do. In place. And it takes 2-3 years to complete.

But I doubt Carson has a clue about it. The guy is utterly unqualified to be President. He'd fit nicely into the Trump admin.

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Re: Paris and the Destruction of Christian European Culture

Post by HokieAl » Nov Sat 21, 2015 8:04 am

Obama was utterly unqualified and has proven it.

Being a good politician is in ways like being a good con man. I'll take someone like Carson over that every day.

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Re: Paris and the Destruction of Christian European Culture

Post by MCasper » Nov Sat 21, 2015 10:37 am

Mac66 wrote:[... My point, a simple one really you insist on ignoring: Carson says we don't have a process. We do. In place. And it takes 2-3 years to complete.

But I doubt Carson has a clue about it. The guy is utterly unqualified to be President. He'd fit nicely into the Trump admin.
'Nearly impossible' to find jihadists among migrants, Greeks warn

AFP By Odile Duperry, Catherine Boitard
6 hours ago

Lesbos (Greece) (AFP) - As the hunt for jihadists widens after last week's Paris attacks, authorities in Greece warn it was virtually impossible to pick out dangerous extremists among arriving migrants, without prior intelligence.

"If they are not already registered in the database, it's nearly impossible," says Dimitris Amountzias, police captain in charge of Moria, Greece's main registration camp on the island of Lesbos.

At the camp, dozens of migrants and refugees queue to give their fingerprints, have a photo taken and be quizzed by agents from European border agency Frontex.

It's a seemingly detailed security check, but jihadists have already proven they can bypass it with ease.
Do we?
Obama’s State Department insists terrorists will be weeded out by a single in-person interview. That’s a joke. Each Syrian refugee selected by the United Nations is interviewed once by someone with just eight days of training on Syria.

Worse, the interviewers — from the US Citizenship and Immigration Services — were ordered last May to relax standards. It’s now OK if your spouse was part of a terrorist organization, provided you can convince the screener you didn’t know you were sleeping with a terrorist. It’s also OK to have a history of supporting a terrorist group yourself — as long as you felt slightly pressured (not even under “duress”) to do it.
Feel Safe?
Obama’s own intelligence experts admit screening Syrian refugees is impossible, because the FBI and Homeland Security Department have no data on Syrians — no fingerprints, arrest records, travel data — to indicate what these people did in Syria, or even whether they are who they claim to be. “There won’t be anything in our database,” FBI head James Comey cautioned Congress last month. “So I can’t sit here and offer anybody an absolute assurance that — there’s no risk associated with this.
Does Comey have a clue?
Last month, Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson was asked by Congress for assurances that “no terrorist could get through the process” of screening refugees. “Well, we may have somebody who comes to us and is simply not on our radar for any discernible reason.”
Is Johnson utterly unqualified?
Testimony by Michael Steinbach, assistant director of the Counterterrorism Division at the FBI before the House Committee on Homeland Security on Feb. 11, in which Steinbach was asked about the problem of vetting Syrian refugees.

“The concern in Syria is that we don’t have systems in places on the ground to collect the information to vet,” Steinbach said. “That would be the concern is we would be vetting databases that don’t hold information on those individuals, and that is the concern”
Could he work in the Trump administration too?
[img]http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:iOO63jD1fxN82M:http://www.usca.edu/polisci/apls201s/q-photo-we-the-people-american-constitution.jpg[/img]

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Re: Paris and the Destruction of Christian European Culture

Post by MCasper » Nov Sat 21, 2015 10:44 am

Mac66 wrote:[... we don't have a process. We do. In place. And it takes 2-3 years to complete.
I don't know if it changes your overall point, but can we correct the 3 year canard here and now?
Press Briefing by Press Secretary Josh Earnest, 9/10/15

... I can tell you that refugees go through the most robust security process of anybody who’s contemplating travel to the United States. Refugees have to be screened by the National Counterterrorism Center, by the FBI Terrorist Screening Center. They go through databases that are maintained by DHS, the Department of Defense and the intelligence community. There is biographical and biometric information that is collected about these individuals. They have to submit to in-person interviews to discuss their case.

And that process typically takes 12 to 18 months.
[img]http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:iOO63jD1fxN82M:http://www.usca.edu/polisci/apls201s/q-photo-we-the-people-american-constitution.jpg[/img]

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Re: Paris and the Destruction of Christian European Culture

Post by Mac66 » Nov Sat 21, 2015 11:06 am

Europe:
And with more than 430,000 migrants crossing the Mediterranean to Europe so far this year -- many fleeing war zones in Syria and Afghanistan -- right-wing politicians have seized upon this threat.

"At this stage we have no indication that jihadists are mixing with refugees," a high-ranking French intelligence official said on condition of anonymity.

The official said "it is true that jihadists increasingly use land routes to avoid being tracked", but on the other hand they had "the financial means" to enter Europe by other means than joining the risky migrant route.

Many of those who have carried out attacks on European soil in the name of the Islamic State group or Al-Qaeda, have EU passports, such as Frenchman Mehdi Nemmouche who attacked the Jewish museum in Brussels in May 2014.

"All the major Islamist groups in Syria and Iraq are currently focused on fighting there and have limited themselves, at least in public, to calling on their supporters who can't travel to Iraq and Syria (and are) already based in the EU, to launch attacks in their names in their countries rather than sending people back," said Henman of IHS Jane's.

The three Islamist gunmen who carried out attacks in Paris in January that left 17 people dead -- most of them at the satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo -- had declared allegiance to the Islamic State.

Alain Chouet, a former chief of France's DGSE intelligence agency, said the threat of jihadists disguising themselves as refugees "does not hold water. It is ridiculous".

"It makes no sense, in operational terms, for a network to take such risks," he told AFP.

"If the Islamic State was losing ground and wanted to launch an international terror offensive, it would not send its foot soldiers among the refugees: it would take them a month to arrive, with a 50-percent chance of drowning."
US:

Refugees are subject to Department of Homeland Security background checks before arriving in the U.S.

The State Department runs the names of all refugees referred to the United States for resettlement through a standard CLASS (Consular Lookout and Support System) name check. In addition, enhanced interagency security checks were phased in beginning in 2008 and applied to all refugee applicants by 2010.

Certain refugees undergo an additional security review called a Se-
curity Advisory Opinion (SAO). These cases require a positive SAO clearance from a number of U.S. law enforcement and intelligence agencies in order to continue the resettlement process. When required, this step runs concurrently with Step 4

Refugees who meet the minimum age requirement have their finger-
prints and photograph taken by a trained U.S. government employee, usually on the same day as their DHS interview. The fingerprints are then checked against various U.S. government databases and information on any matches is reviewed by DHS.

All refugee applicants are interviewed by an officer from DHS’s U.S. Citizen-
ship and Immigration Services (USCIS). A trained officer will travel to the country of asylum* to conduct a detailed, face-to- face interview with each refugee applicant being considered for resettle- ment. Based on the information in the refugee’s case file and on the interview, the DHS officer will determine if the individual qualifies as a refugee and is admissible under U.S. law.

If the USCIS officer finds that the individual qualifies as a refugee and meets other U.S. admission criteria, the officer will conditionally approve the refugee’s application for resettlement and submit it to the U.S. Department of State for final processing. Conditional approvals become final once the results of all security checks (Steps 4, 5, and 6) have been received and cleared.

Refugees are processed in conjunction with nine nonprofits, not solely by the government.

Refugees are sent all over the U.S.

Refugees must pay back the cost of their flight to the U.S.

Refugees don't get long-term subsidized housing.

Refugees have to apply for jobs.Christian resettlement organizations help refugees of all faiths.

Five of the nine resettlement agencies are Christian and one is Jewish, but all serve refugees of all nationalities and faiths.The government doesn't track refugees after they arrive.

Once arriving in the U.S., refugees are allowed to move anywhere in the country, just like any other legal resident. If a refugee does choose to relocate, a local organization works to transfer the case to another resettlement agency in the new location, but that is not always possible.

Bottom line: no process will ever be 100% secure. None. If you want to wall us in and not allow people from El Salvador, or Mali, or Syria to come here for a better life, then Trump, your 9th favorite, should vault to number 1.

100% safety is an illusion. The solution is to work with our neighbors and have a coherent policy, and Obama has done a terrible job of both.

SJR

Re: Paris and the Destruction of Christian European Culture

Post by SJR » Nov Sat 21, 2015 2:15 pm

SJR wrote:
How about the destruction of the American culture?

You can defend and admire Donald Trump if you want to but he

1. Thinks we should close all mosques.
2. Deport Syrians that came to this country legally.
3. Is open to making muslims wear identification badges.


You mean of course like the Jewish star of the holocaust.

This will destroy American culture.


Every word of your post is a lie. Including the part that I admire Trump, my 9th favorite GOP candidate.


First of all I did not say that you admire him, I posed it at a possibility "you can admire him if you want to" that is giving you a choice.


As for you calling me a liar.

These are the people that came here legally as I said,
"Anybody that's brought into this country from the migration is going to be out,” Trump said at a rally in Knoxville, Tenn., Monday night. “We’re not gonna do it. We’re gonna have a country again, we’re gonna have borders, we’re gonna have a country again, right now we don't have a country."
As for closing mosques:

On Hannity on Tuesday

The United States will have "absolutely no choice" but to close down some mosques where "some bad things are happening," Donald Trump said in a recent interview, explaining his rationale for doing so.
"Nobody wants to say this and nobody wants to shut down religious institutions or anything, but you know, you understand it. A lot of people understand it. We’re going to have no choice," the Republican presidential said in an interview from Trump Tower on Fox News' "Hannity" on Tuesday night.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/11/t ... z3s9fKW1jF

As for identification badges:

Washington Post, November 19th

Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump, who has called for expanded surveillance of American Muslims, is refusing to rule out extreme measures that include warrantless searches or faith-based identification requirements.

"We're going to have to do things that we never did before. Some people are going to be upset about it, but I think that now everybody is feeling that security is going to rule,” Trump told Yahoo News in an interview published Thursday. “And certain things will be done that we never thought would happen in this country in terms of information and learning about the enemy. And so we’re going to have to do certain things that were frankly unthinkable a year ago.”

When pressed on whether these measures might include tracking Muslim Americans in a database or noting their religious affiliations on identification cards, Trump would not go into detail -- but did not reject the options.
Second Washington Post Article


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/pos ... ly-in-s-c/




I would like an apology for you calling me a liar,
Last edited by SJR on Nov Sat 21, 2015 2:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

SJR

Re: Paris and the Destruction of Christian European Culture

Post by SJR » Nov Sat 21, 2015 2:24 pm

M. Casper, are you serious?

First you call Moulton stupid, then say you meant to say phony and then chastise me saying "someone can be educated and still be a phony".

I really don't know how to respond to your logic, I was responding to your comment that you believed he was stupid and then you try to repudiate what I wrote by addressing it like you had said he was a phony? Unbelievable.


As for relying on the general population opinion on whether to allow Syrian refugees, let's look back to 1938 and see the American public opinion of allowing Jewish refugees from Germany and the surrounding countries.

Sometimes public opinion is just plain wrong.

http://qz.com/553393/a-survey-of-americ ... ng-itself/


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Re: Paris and the Destruction of Christian European Culture

Post by Vlad_Rap » Nov Sat 21, 2015 4:30 pm

Cruz did not lie but your comparison of Jews coming from Europe in the 1930s with Syrian Muslims in 2015 is ridiculous.

We should not take in Syrian refugees because we are Americans and as such cannot compel a category of people to set themselves apart by registering. At the same time the American people are under no compulsion to import a can of worms because of guilt trip - like the Germans. I think Ted would agree.

I don't believe the U.S. was allowing much immigration from anywhere during the Great Depression.

SJR

Re: Paris and the Destruction of Christian European Culture

Post by SJR » Nov Sat 21, 2015 5:57 pm

Excuse me where was the lie?

I did not say Cruz was lying, I was saying that Cruz was calling out Trump on what he said and since M Casper called me a liar for posting that about Trump, is he calling Cruz a liar for saying the same thing I posted? That was my point.

I posted a poll from 1938 in a similar time, substitute Hitler for Isis, except Hitler was far more dangerous. Refugees that wanted to escape Hitler, the vast majority of them were Jews. And people at the time were concerned that spies would get in. The comparison is pretty close, fear drove both.

Tell me where the lie is?

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Re: Paris and the Destruction of Christian European Culture

Post by Vlad_Rap » Nov Sat 21, 2015 6:25 pm

Relax kid. I was agreeing with you that Ted was not lying.

Also - the comparison was between 1930s Jews and 2015 Syrians. Not between Hitler and Isis which seems beside the point, distracting, and manipulative.

What good is appearing to be right when so much is at stake?

SJR

Re: Paris and the Destruction of Christian European Culture

Post by SJR » Nov Sat 21, 2015 6:27 pm

Because you need to look at the history and see the result. You do not want to let that happen again.

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Re: Paris and the Destruction of Christian European Culture

Post by Vlad_Rap » Nov Sat 21, 2015 6:54 pm

Because you need to look at the history and see the result. You do not want to let that happen again.
We are just one lone country, albeit the greatest of them all, but cannot be soley responsible for the rest of the planet.

The U.S. becoming a second rate country will not help the rest of the world.

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Re: Paris and the Destruction of Christian European Culture

Post by MCasper » Nov Sun 22, 2015 5:03 am

SJR wrote:I would like an apology for you calling me a liar,
Lying in more detail doesn't make you more honest. Refusing to see your lies doesn't make you worthy of an apology. Do you want an apology for hurting your feelings?
[img]http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:iOO63jD1fxN82M:http://www.usca.edu/polisci/apls201s/q-photo-we-the-people-american-constitution.jpg[/img]

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Re: Paris and the Destruction of Christian European Culture

Post by MCasper » Nov Sun 22, 2015 5:28 am

SJR wrote:M. Casper, are you serious?

First you call Moulton stupid, then say you meant to say phony and then chastise me saying "someone can be educated and still be a phony".

I really don't know how to respond to your logic, I was responding to your comment that you believed he was stupid and then you try to repudiate what I wrote by addressing it like you had said he was a phony? Unbelievable.

As for relying on the general population opinion on whether to allow Syrian refugees, let's look back to 1938 and see the American public opinion of allowing Jewish refugees from Germany and the surrounding countries.

Sometimes public opinion is just plain wrong.
Yes I am serious.

Here is how you respond to it ... READ then THINK then respond.

If you read and/or thought, you wouldn't say "First you call Moulton stupid"
MCasper wrote:
Mac66 wrote:... Representative Seth Moulton of Salem, who voted against the bill, said ... “I fully support increasing the security and effectiveness of the refugee program, but the bill on the floor today was not a serious effort to do so,” Moulton said. “It was a counterproductive measure that would add needless red tape to an already strong process.”
Typical liberal phony, ... I fully support increasing the security and effectiveness of the refugee program ... then the same disingenuous bastard says it is "needless (to do so because it's) an already strong process.”



Shorter ... I fully support it, but I don't really support it because it isn't needed ...

Dizzying stupidity on display.
Yet if you read/thought, you would see that is a lie in two different ways.

First, I called him a typical liberal phony.
Second, I doubt even you would disagree with the liberal part.
Third, I spelled out why I thought he was phony with his statement.
LASTLY, I added the dizzying stupidity specifically to his statement, not to a highly educated man. (hence the phony.)

The later post when I retract the last line of my post was me being introspective and agreeing that I went too far in that characterization. That is something honest people do quite often.

I do understand your belief in ignoring the people's views in government policy. It is however what cost your the House in 2010 and the Senate in 2014. Democrats during Obama’s presidency lost 11 governorships, 13 U.S. Senate seats, 69 House seats, and 913 state legislative seats and 30 state legislative chambers.

So be careful with your belief of screw the people, the people have a way of fighting back.
[img]http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:iOO63jD1fxN82M:http://www.usca.edu/polisci/apls201s/q-photo-we-the-people-american-constitution.jpg[/img]

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Re: Paris and the Destruction of Christian European Culture

Post by MCasper » Nov Sun 22, 2015 6:01 am

SJR wrote:Because you need to look at the history and see the result. You do not want to let that happen again.
You need to look at the present reality as well ...

[img]http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:iOO63jD1fxN82M:http://www.usca.edu/polisci/apls201s/q-photo-we-the-people-american-constitution.jpg[/img]

SJR

Re: Paris and the Destruction of Christian European Culture

Post by SJR » Nov Sun 22, 2015 1:13 pm

I asked for the apology because you stated what I posted about Trump was a lie. Why do you try to spin it to make it look like it was the other Moulton topic.

Again, Moulton gets a pass from me and I do not question his character. That is based primarily on his service to the country.
I also stated that someone can make a statement about an issue and then not vote on a bill. I would imagine you know that there are numerous aspects of a bill, amendment, provisions etc so that the main theme of the bill may be worthy and may appear to be in line with a person position but the details make them unable to vote on it. Typically happens to the party in the minority as the majority controls the agenda.

As for labeling me. I am more than willing to call out a phony, liberal our conservative. Nancy Pelosi, phony, Harry Reid, phony, birther movement, phony, Marco Rubio, Phony, Bernie Sanders, Phony.

At this point in time, I would support either John Kashich or Chris Christy for President so don't act like you know my thought process or what I believe.

SJR

Re: Paris and the Destruction of Christian European Culture

Post by SJR » Nov Sun 22, 2015 1:15 pm

As for your video, I got through the first ten seconds before they flat out lied. Ezra Levant is not a reliable source. As a person who spends a great deal of time in Canada, I am familiar with him, he is known to be a liar on some issues and unreliable on others. He is as you phrase it, a phony.

You can also restrict them by allowing orphaned children, there are over 10,000 just in that population. You can allow women and children, that makes up three quarters of all the refugees.

That video is simply paranoid propganda

SJR

Re: Paris and the Destruction of Christian European Culture

Post by SJR » Nov Sun 22, 2015 2:12 pm

And lastly, before you label Moulton a "liberal phony" this is a very humble man. It took the press to highlight his very impressive war record he did not run on it. His record as a marine Captain by the way was four tours in Iraq, the Medal of Valor and the Bronze Star.

He took on a defeated a democrat in the primary, a risky proposition. IF you bothered to look at his history, he is a very impressive genuine person and one not to be labeled with partisan rhetoric.

By the way that is all in addition to an MBA from Harvard.

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Re: Paris and the Destruction of Christian European Culture

Post by specialties » Nov Sun 22, 2015 2:23 pm

:lol: Notice how they play phase shift games on the prism...

Kinda makes one think that they are for the widows and orphans instead of the agenda!!!
First it was the CHURCH, then the FAMILY, and now the NATION...

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Re: Paris and the Destruction of Christian European Culture

Post by HokieAl » Nov Sun 22, 2015 3:45 pm

SJR wrote:I asked for the apology because you stated what I posted about Trump was a lie.
Well you did repeat what is a lie.

Imo Temp should sue the NY Times for libel. Even after they knew he never called for a Muslim ID, they printed a headline saying that.

SJR

Re: Paris and the Destruction of Christian European Culture

Post by SJR » Nov Sun 22, 2015 5:18 pm

He denied in an NBC interview that he ever said this and that is what you may have seen but here he is on camera saying it.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/20/opinions/ ... ti-muslim/


Also in regards to your comment on Trump suing the New York Times; has Trump ever hesitated in suing anyone? He files lawsuits as often as you and I go the rest room. If what they printed was not true, he would not have hesitated in filing a lawsuit.

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Re: Paris and the Destruction of Christian European Culture

Post by HokieAl » Nov Sun 22, 2015 5:27 pm

SJR wrote:He denied in an NBC interview that he ever said this and that is what you may have seen but here he is on camera saying it.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/20/opinions/ ... ti-muslim/


Also in regards to your comment on Trump suing the New York Times; has Trump ever hesitated in suing anyone? He files lawsuits as often as you and I go the rest room. If what they printed was not true, he would not have hesitated in filing a lawsuit.
From your link:
Just so it's clear, Trump did not suggest that Muslim-Americans should be required to wear a symbol that would visibly identify them as Muslims, such as a gold crescent.

SJR

Re: Paris and the Destruction of Christian European Culture

Post by SJR » Nov Sun 22, 2015 5:46 pm

My mistake, he just wants them to carry an identification and register in a national data base.

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Re: Paris and the Destruction of Christian European Culture

Post by HokieAl » Nov Sun 22, 2015 6:01 pm

You carry ID and you have a social security number, ie you're in a national database.

SJR

Re: Paris and the Destruction of Christian European Culture

Post by SJR » Nov Sun 22, 2015 6:13 pm

You really can't see the difference?

To be part of a separate data base that is based on religious affiliation?

Really?

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Re: Paris and the Destruction of Christian European Culture

Post by HokieAl » Nov Sun 22, 2015 6:19 pm

He did not suggest that. A reporter did. Is that reporter racist? Why else did he suggest that?

But even if he did. When you fill out your census, you include that info. Therefore, lots of info about you is in a database. And if you understand relational databases, the point of them is linking and sorting to combine all kinds of information. The concept of "separate" doesn't exist even if they're physically seperate.

SJR

Re: Paris and the Destruction of Christian European Culture

Post by SJR » Nov Sun 22, 2015 6:30 pm

A reporter asked the question based on prior statements by Trump, legitimate question.

As for the other premise, you know that having a separate data base based on your religion is not only immoral but it is unconstitutional. You know that but you do not want to even concede a point.

No use in having that type of conversation.

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Re: Paris and the Destruction of Christian European Culture

Post by HokieAl » Nov Sun 22, 2015 6:35 pm

He still didn't suggest it. I agree with you about the rest. For non-Americans eg visitors of any whatever, I don't have a problem with us trying to keep track of them. You have to answer similar questions as American citizens whenever you travel out of the country.

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Re: Paris and the Destruction of Christian European Culture

Post by MCasper » Nov Mon 23, 2015 3:21 am

SJR wrote:I asked for the apology because you stated what I posted about Trump was a lie. Why do you try to spin it to make it look like it was the other Moulton topic.

...
READ ... THINK ... then respond.
[img]http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:iOO63jD1fxN82M:http://www.usca.edu/polisci/apls201s/q-photo-we-the-people-american-constitution.jpg[/img]

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Re: Paris and the Destruction of Christian European Culture

Post by Joseph » Nov Mon 23, 2015 7:44 am

SJR wrote:You really can't see the difference?

To be part of a separate data base that is based on religious affiliation?

Really?

Is there really anything preventing a federal or foreign agency or contractor from merging databases?
Why do so many officials FEAR and kowtow to the Marshfield Airport gang?

What is the source of their power? Does it involve some kind of unseemly enterprise? A government entity?

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