Health care the way it should be

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Re: Health care the way it should be

Post by specialties » Oct Mon 12, 2009 4:13 pm

Oh, you are way off base and very wrong...

Started involuntary investment in early 50s, now being told 'NOT COVERED'...
Medicare is folding, obamanation needs to steal those funds for the FREE stuff going to your new voting base, illegals, tribbles, and freeloaders...

Everything on up and up here... Have better government so go on without me...

Free health care will cost the taxpayer dearly, plus they'll be in the hole for lousy treatments, if any...

Do you know anyone who runs to Canada, Cuba, or UK when they get sick???
Why not save big expenses and offer free E/R to your followers... That way we keep good health even if we pay thru the nose...

Good luck with the tribbles, maybe better to follow obamanation's post birth abort to at least teens if good zombie komrade feel gooder is worthy of keeping...

In the mean time, keep ur dirty digits off my denim...
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Re: Health care the way it should be

Post by MCasper » Oct Mon 12, 2009 5:58 pm

This analysis shows that the cost of the average family coverage is approximately $12,300 today and could be expected to increase to approximately:

'¢$15,500 in 2013 under current law and to $17,200 if these provisions are implemented.

'¢$18,400 in 2016 under current law and to $21,300 if these provisions are implemented.

'¢$21,900 in 2019 under current law and to $25,900 if these provisions are implemented.



This analysis shows that the cost of the average single coverage is $4,600 today and could be expected to increase to:

'¢$5,800 in 2013 under current law and to $6,400 if these provisions are implemented.

'¢$6,900 in 2016 under current law and to $7,900 if these provisions are implemented.

'¢$8,200 in 2019 under current law and to $9,700 if these provisions are implemented.
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Re: Health care the way it should be

Post by Marshead » Oct Mon 12, 2009 6:05 pm

This analysis
What analysis? By whom? Of what?
if these provisions are implemented.
What provisions?

??????
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Re: Health care the way it should be

Post by Phil » Oct Mon 12, 2009 10:05 pm

specialties wrote: Good luck with the tribbles, maybe better to follow obamanation's post birth abort to at least teens if good zombie komrade feel gooder is worthy of keeping...
LOL that has to be the best 1 liner in a long time lmao!!!

You want to make health care more expensive? Let the government "reform" it. :lol:
“Reform' Means You Pay More for Health Care

* Posted October 12th, 2009 at 10.04am in Health Care.

A major new report confirms the worst fears of many: Health care reform will raise the costs for most Americans-by about 18% on average. That is on top of existing inflation of health coverage.

Once the plan is fully phased-in (by 2019), a typical family of four would pay an extra $4,000 each year.

When combined with existing inflation, costs would rise from today's $12,300 annual average to $25,900. Of that 111% increase, $9,600 is due to existing factors uncorrected by the legislation, and $4,000 due to additional costs created by the legislation.

For single persons, the differential is projected at $1,500 a year. Premiums would rise from today's $4,600 a year to $9,600 overall.

Prepared by Price Waterhouse Coopers (PWC), the new analysis was requested by AHIP-America's Health Insurance Plans. It focuses on the leading plan pending in Congress, sponsored by Sen. Max Baucus (D, MT), which is scheduled for a Senate Finance Committee vote on Tuesday. The PWC report can be read here.

The PWC projections track what The Heritage Foundation and many others have said about the legislation: It does not save money. It simply taxes those who have health coverage and uses the money to give care to others.

The White House is said to be livid. After all, President Obama's claims that he makes care more affordable are exposed as a myth by the new study. Lawmakers claim the bill would “save' money, but that's not true for those who have insurance. The only “savings' would be to those who receive government-paid health care and subsidies at the cost of higher prices for everyone else. (Even if the legislation “reduced the deficit', it would do so by making citizens pay more, not by controlling government spending.)

Despite the enormous costs, estimates say 25-million people would remain uninsured under the Baucus bill.
The new study also criticizes the Baucus plan for not placing tougher mandates and penalties on those who do not buy health insurance, which would help spread the costs (and create new customers for insurers). PWC reports higher costs would occur due to these parts of the bill:

* Requirements to cover pre-existing conditions with guaranteed-issue insurance
* The new tax created on so-called “high cost' health care plans
* The new taxes on medical devices and other segments of health care
* Reduction in Medicare payments, which care providers would offset by raising rates on their other patients.

The report will be denounced as a political attack by the insurance industry. But the real attack is Washington's assault on our pocketbooks and our freedoms.

* Author: Ernest Istook
http://blog.heritage.org/2009/10/12/%E2 ... more-16881
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Re: Health care the way it should be

Post by Marshead » Oct Mon 12, 2009 11:20 pm

I hear that a new study by Phillip Morris indicates that America would be better off if cigarette taxes were lower. And Anheuser Busch apparently wants to lower the drinking age to 12. They did a really cool study, too.
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Re: Health care the way it should be

Post by MCasper » Oct Tue 13, 2009 5:33 am

Typical response. No substance whatsoever.
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Re: Health care the way it should be

Post by specialties » Oct Tue 13, 2009 7:31 am

We have the best health care on the planet... How can it be improved??
Certainly not by bureaucracy...

Does this make a logical RESTART point?? Go from here??
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Re: Health care the way it should be

Post by Phil » Oct Tue 13, 2009 8:31 pm

Max's budget-gimmick magic

By MICHAEL F. CANNON

Last Updated: 5:20 AM, October 13, 2009

The Senate Finance Committee will perpetrate a huge fraud on the US public today. Chairman Max Baucus promises to hold a final vote on his health-care overhaul -- most of whose costs he has hidden with budgetary gimmicks.

The widely reported numbers are wrong: This bill would increase the deficit and cost more than $2 trillion over 10 years.

Yes, the headlines on the Congressional Budget Office's preliminary cost estimate were that the bill could cost $829 billion over 10 years and trim the federal deficit by $81 billion. But those numbers are pure fantasy -- as CBO plainly, if gently, indicated.

First off, Baucus relies on some cuts that we know won't actually get made.

Long ago, Congress enacted a series of annual cuts to Medicare physician payments that were supposed to begin in 2003. Starting that very year, however, Congress has repeatedly blocked those cuts.

Yet Baucus -- contrary to all experience -- assumes Congress will let those cuts take place starting in 2012. That implausible assumption creates some $234 billion in "savings" that will never materialize. Factor them out, and the supposed $81 billion in deficit reduction becomes $153 billion in fresh deficit spending.

The CBO's language pooh-poohing Baucus on this was pure bureaucratese -- but the agency essentially told Baucus: If the sun rises in the west from 2012 through 2019, then yes, this bill would reduce the deficit.

What of that $829 billion cost figure? It's only CBO's estimate of new federal spending on expanded insurance coverage. On his blog, ex-CBO Director Donald Marron suggests that the bill's other new spending on health-related items boosts the total to $904 billion.

Plus, Baucus mandates new state spending on Medicaid -- $33 billion, the CBO estimates. New total: $937 billion.


But Baucus' most audacious gimmick is to push half the cost off the federal budget and onto the private sector -- while persuading the CBO to ignore those costs.

The Baucus bill, like every other bill Congress has produced and the overhaul recently enacted in Massachusetts, would expand coverage by forcing Americans to buy insurance. Maybe you don't want to call it a tax, but it's still plainly a cost.

How large a cost? The Massachusetts Taxpayers Foundation found that new federal and state spending accounts for just 40 percent of the Bay State's reforms' cost -- and the private-sector mandates for 60 percent.

Apply that ratio to the Baucus bill, and its actual cost exceeds $2 trillion.

In 1994, the CBO effectively killed the Clinton health plan by counting its private-sector mandates as part of the cost. This time around, congressional leaders wrote their bills so that CBO wouldn't count them. But it's just a gimmick -- the mandates are still part of this bill's cost.

Baucus & Co. have done a good job of fooling most people about the cost of their legislation.
But as Abraham Lincoln admonished, that only works some of the time.

The CBO's formal "score" of the bill should include a cost estimate of the private-sector mandates. Then we can debate the full scope of the legislation and not just the parts Sen. Baucus wants us to see.
"The Senate Finance Committee will perpetrate a huge fraud on the US public today" and maybe Marshead will take it all in, hook line and sinker.
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Re: Health care the way it should be

Post by specialties » Oct Tue 13, 2009 8:41 pm

What does it matter, Phil... Mushy's pogrom is to bust the USA...

The sooner the better, I say... Do it now... Get them illegal votes for your slave master, boy!!

Go for it, tools... Screw the most benevolent and free country ever settled on earth...
( until y'all got here )

Not to worry, His Kingdom will come... Trust Him... Nobody screws him...
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Re: Health care the way it should be

Post by Phil » Oct Tue 13, 2009 8:48 pm

More facts for Mushy & co to ignore (quick, it's time to change the subject to Bush. Contact bridges if you need help with that)
Three Irrefutable Facts About the Baucus Bill

Posted by Chris Moody

The Senate Finance Committee votes today on Senator Max Baucus' version of the health care bill. Cato health care experts have analyzed the bill thoroughly, and point out three vital components to the cost and reach of the legislation:

1) The real cost of the bill is in excess of $2 trillion.

Chairman Max Baucus hoodwinked the CBO with a number of clever budgetary gimmicks, most notably by keeping about half of the cost off the federal books. The bill also assumes Congress will make cuts to Medicare payments, which has never once happened before.

2) The bill contains an enormous middle-class tax hike.

The bill imposes a 40 percent excise tax on health insurance plans that offer benefits in excess of $8,000 for an individual plan and $21,000 for a family plan. Insurers would almost certainly pass this tax on to consumers via higher premiums. As inflation pushes insurance premiums higher in coming years, more and more middle-class families will find themselves caught up in the tax - providing the government with more revenue.

3) The bill creates a national ID program.

The bill contains a paragraph explicitly addressing “eligibility verification.' You must prove who you are to federal entitlement agencies in order to qualify for the bill's “state exchanges' and tax credits. No ID, no benefits.
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Re: Health care the way it should be

Post by Marshead » Oct Tue 13, 2009 10:05 pm

"The Senate Finance Committee will perpetrate a huge fraud on the US public today" and maybe Marshead will take it all in, hook line and sinker.
Olympia Snowe is a pretty big fish. Gullible, too, apparently. Still, very glad to have her vote.

You guys style yourselves as the defenders of apple pie and Adam Smith, but you are simply reactionary tools shilling for a system that is broken and failing -- just ask Bob Dole, Bill Frist, Howard Baker, or Tommy Thompson. Apparently, Republicans get smarter once they are out of office (and aren't on the take from the health care lobby anymore).
Last edited by Marshead on Oct Tue 13, 2009 10:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Health care the way it should be

Post by Shellshock » Oct Wed 14, 2009 6:22 am

How would those retired pol's even know if health care is broken when one of there perks is health care for life. I Bet Bob Dole hasn't been to a VA Hospital lately The Government couldn't oversee Cash for Clunkers how are they going to oversee this you go to any foreign country their pets get better care because the government hasn't started overseeing Veterinary care yet,Thats why the Foreigners who can afford to come here end up to use our
Broken System
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Re: Health care the way it should be

Post by specialties » Oct Wed 14, 2009 7:29 am

You guys style yourselves as the defenders of apple pie and Adam Smith, but you are simply reactionary tools shilling for a system that is broken and failing
Us guys?? You mean those millions of Tea Baggers who are balking at your george soros takeover?? You people have had a solid foothold ( virtually 100% ) and sho nuff, the system is breaking, big time, with some help from a few lame repubs even who are also complicit...

What about the rest of US??

Yep, you are breaking the system with self indulgence and wrong moves...

Get it over with as quickly as possible, so's we can begin the rebuild, please...

We are watching people lose their birthright, families, jobs, their government, and even their souls...

Take it away, benedict... Go for the pogrom...

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Re: Health care the way it should be

Post by bobkat » Oct Wed 14, 2009 7:46 am

Shellshock wrote:How would those retired pol's even know if health care is broken when one of there perks is health care for life.
What you posted here is really truthful. You should check before you post. These Pols are on Medicare. It is the law that at age 65 you go on Medicare. Next time you look at your pay check even though you don't pay into Soc Sec. You have 2% taken out of your check for Medicare B. So at age 65 you will be going on Medicare just like Bob Dole, Howard Baker and Tommy Thompson.

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Re: Health care the way it should be

Post by lost cause » Oct Wed 14, 2009 8:29 am

bobkat wrote:
Shellshock wrote:How would those retired pol's even know if health care is broken when one of there perks is health care for life.
What you posted here is really truthful. You should check before you post. These Pols are on Medicare. It is the law that at age 65 you go on Medicare. Next time you look at your pay check even though you don't pay into Soc Sec. You have 2% taken out of your check for Medicare B. So at age 65 you will be going on Medicare just like Bob Dole, Howard Baker and Tommy Thompson.

It is not the law that you go on Medicare. You become eligible for it at 65. My parents are both over the age of 65 and have elected to carry a private HMO instead of participating in medicare as do many seniors that can afford it.

You only have 1.45% taken out unless self employed then it is 2.9%.
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Re: Health care the way it should be

Post by bobkat » Oct Wed 14, 2009 9:07 am

lost cause wrote:
bobkat wrote:
Shellshock wrote:How would those retired pol's even know if health care is broken when one of there perks is health care for life.
What you posted here is really truthful. You should check before you post. These Pols are on Medicare. It is the law that at age 65 you go on Medicare. Next time you look at your pay check even though you don't pay into Soc Sec. You have 2% taken out of your check for Medicare B. So at age 65 you will be going on Medicare just like Bob Dole, Howard Baker and Tommy Thompson.

It is not the law that you go on Medicare. You become eligible for it at 65. My parents are both over the age of 65 and have elected to carry a private HMO instead of participating in medicare as do many seniors that can afford it.

You only have 1.45% taken out unless self employed then it is 2.9%.
Lost cause you are wrong . The HMO acts as an agent for Medicare.With the passage of the Balanced Budget Act of 1997, Medicare beneficiaries were given the option to receive their Medicare benefits through private health insurance plans, instead of through the original Medicare plan (Parts A and B). These programs were known as "Medicare+Choice" or "Part C" plans. This type of plan puts together Medicare and the additional coverage. Your parents are still charged for part B out of the their Social Sec. each month. Part A was paid through pay roll tax. When we talk about having to join Medicare . We are talking about part A. Everything else is an opition. The real benefit of part C is in most Plans Rx is included. So a person on Medicare +choice (part C) does not have to sign up for part D. Also you don't know the law when it comes to a person that works for a town, city or the state of Massachusetts with their employment starting after 1983. These people in this work group do not pay into Soc.Sec but will bee on medicare at age 65.

Maybe you can learn something here.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/politicol ... ranny.html
Last edited by bobkat on Oct Wed 14, 2009 9:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Health care the way it should be

Post by Marshead » Oct Wed 14, 2009 9:18 am

Us guys?? You mean those millions of Tea Baggers who are balking at your george soros takeover??
When the Fox-sponsored "Tea Party" rally took place in Washington, it drew about 75,000 people. Not bad, but not that impressive considering the relentless promotion of the event by a 24/7 cable "news" network. After the rally (which got hours of coverage on Fox), several anchors, including Beck and Hannity, were foaming at the mouth that other cable news outlets didn't devote the same level of saturation coverage that Fox devoted its own event: "Where are the other networks? How can they devote so little coverage to such a major happening, with tens of thousands gathered at the Capitol?"

Fast forward to last weekend's gay rights rally in D.C. It, too, drew about 75,000 (without any sponsorship by a major cable network). FOX DIDN'T SEND A SINGLE REPORTER OR CAMERA. Their total coverage from 6 am to 9 pm -- 15 hours worth of air time -- lasted less than 4 minutes, and consisted of two talking heads in some remote studio commenting on a live television feed from... ABC News.

Meanwhile, one day later, Fox gave 8 minutes of coverage , including a live camera crew and a reporter on the scene, to a protest at a NJ elementary school concerning a song the chidlren had sung in support of President Obama. What did the Fox camera actually show? An empty sidewalk, completely devoid of protesters (of whom there were less than 70, at its peak), since the rally was already over by the time the camera crew got there.

The hilarity (and hypocrisy) of it all is captured quite nicely by Jon Stewart, in last night's show. The fun starts at 2:43:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episod ... llenberger

Your so-called Tea Party movement is little more than an astroturf campaign sponsored by some ultra-right political activists who happen to run a major cable network, and which seeks to tea bag the rest of the country. Nobody other than The Big Crybaby cares.
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Re: Health care the way it should be

Post by lost cause » Oct Wed 14, 2009 9:32 am

Marshead wrote:
Us guys?? You mean those millions of Tea Baggers who are balking at your george soros takeover??
When the Fox-sponsored "Tea Party" rally took place in Washington, it drew about 75,000 people. Not bad, but not that impressive considering the relentless promotion of the event by a 24/7 cable "news" network. After the rally (which got hours of coverage on Fox), several anchors, including Beck and Hannity, were foaming at the mouth that other cable news outlets didn't devote the same level of saturation coverage that Fox devoted its own event: "Where are the other networks? How can they devote so little coverage to such a major happening, with tens of thousands gathered at the Capitol?"

Fast forward to last weekend's gay rights rally in D.C. It, too, drew about 75,000 (without any sponsorship by a major cable network). FOX DIDN'T SEND A SINGLE REPORTER OR CAMERA. Their total coverage from 6 am to 9 pm -- 15 hours worth of air time -- lasted less than 4 minutes, and consisted of two talking heads in some remote studio commenting on a live television feed from... ABC News.

Meanwhile, one day later, Fox gave 8 minutes of coverage , including a live camera crew and a reporter on the scene, to a protest at a NJ elementary school concerning a song the chidlren had sung in support of President Obama. What did the Fox camera actually show? An empty sidewalk, completely devoid of protesters (of whom there were less than 70, at its peak), since the rally was already over by the time the camera crew got there.

The hilarity (and hypocrisy) of it all is captured quite nicely by Jon Stewart, in last night's show. The fun starts at 2:43:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episod ... llenberger

Your so-called Tea Party movement is little more than an astroturf campaign sponsored by some ultra-right political activists who happen to run a major cable network, and which seeks to tea bag the rest of the country. Nobody other than The Big Crybaby cares.
What was so important about the gay rights rally in Washington that any network needed to present more the 4 minutes of coverage too? Cold it have been the fact that President still doesn't believe that they deserve equal rights in marriage or in the military? He has made no attempt to reverse don't ask don't tell, not has he changed is mind about gay marriage.

Other then that it was just a large group of people who picked a bad time of the year to take a weekend vacation in the nations capital as the spring and summer months would have been better.

By the way how much time did the other cable networks spend in total on the coverage of the rally?
Last edited by lost cause on Oct Wed 14, 2009 9:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Health care the way it should be

Post by lost cause » Oct Wed 14, 2009 9:35 am

bobkat wrote: Lost cause you are wrong . The HMO acts as an agent for Medicare.With the passage of the Balanced Budget Act of 1997, Medicare beneficiaries were given the option to receive their Medicare benefits through private health insurance plans, instead of through the original Medicare plan (Parts A and B). These programs were known as "Medicare+Choice" or "Part C" plans. This type of plan puts together Medicare and the additional coverage. Your parents are still charged for part B out of the their Social Sec. each month. Part A was paid through pay roll tax. When we talk about having to join Medicare . We are talking about part A. Everything else is an opition. The real benefit of part C is in most Plans Rx is included. So a person on Medicare +choice (part C) does not have to sign up for part D. Also you don't know the law when it comes to a person that works for a town, city or the state of Massachusetts with their employment starting after 1983. These people in this work group do not pay into Soc.Sec but will bee on medicare at age 65.

Maybe you can learn something here.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/politicol ... ranny.html
So what you are saying is that the current goverment funded health care program for seniors is so good that people still have to go out and purchase supplemental insurance to be fully covered. Never mind the fact that medicare is underfunded and ripe with corruption.
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Re: Health care the way it should be

Post by bobkat » Oct Wed 14, 2009 9:43 am

lost cause wrote:
bobkat wrote: Lost cause you are wrong . The HMO acts as an agent for Medicare.With the passage of the Balanced Budget Act of 1997, Medicare beneficiaries were given the option to receive their Medicare benefits through private health insurance plans, instead of through the original Medicare plan (Parts A and B). These programs were known as "Medicare+Choice" or "Part C" plans. This type of plan puts together Medicare and the additional coverage. Your parents are still charged for part B out of the their Social Sec. each month. Part A was paid through pay roll tax. When we talk about having to join Medicare . We are talking about part A. Everything else is an opition. The real benefit of part C is in most Plans Rx is included. So a person on Medicare +choice (part C) does not have to sign up for part D. Also you don't know the law when it comes to a person that works for a town, city or the state of Massachusetts with their employment starting after 1983. These people in this work group do not pay into Soc.Sec but will bee on medicare at age 65.

Maybe you can learn something here.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/politicol ... ranny.html
So what you are saying is that the current goverment funded health care program for seniors is so good that people still have to go out and purchase supplemental insurance to be fully covered. Never mind the fact that medicare is underfunded and ripe with corruption.

Lost Cause again you shoot from the hip . Medicare is just like major medical coverage. If you have amajor medical plan your are not fully covered. Also I bet your parents still pay a premiums and co-pays for their coverage. I don't know how old you are but with age I hope learn.

Try reading this.

http://www.cms.hhs.gov/apps/media/press ... unter=3272

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Re: Health care the way it should be

Post by Marshead » Oct Wed 14, 2009 11:36 am

Never mind the fact that medicare is underfunded and ripe with corruption.
Then the GOP leadership in Congress should launch a full-scale effort to repeal it. Then, once the 30 remaining GOP Senators and 40-50 surviving GOP Congressmen wake up the morning after the 2010 elections, they'll be able to assess how well they did.

Oh, wait, I almost forgot -- the GOP expanded Medicare by hundreds of billions of dollars just a few years ago, when they controlled the White House and both houses of Congress. I guess it's suddenly a terrible program -- and certainly no model -- now that the Dems are in charge
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Re: Health care the way it should be

Post by Marshead » Oct Wed 14, 2009 11:54 am

Other then that it was just a large group of people who picked a bad time of the year to take a weekend vacation in the nations capital as the spring and summer months would have been better.
As someone who lived in D.C. for several years, I can tell that you haven't.
By the way how much time did the other cable networks spend in total on the coverage of the rally?
CNN and ABC News had live coverage, with their own cameras and correspondents. I'm not sure about the others, but I would be shocked if they gave it such incredibly short shrift as Fox did. And Fox's non-coverage is all the more telling given the wall-to-wall coverage it gave the Tea Bagger rally (and also to that protest in NJ, complete with images of ZERO protesters, after the whopping 70 people who were there had already dispersed), with multiple correspondents on hand, one of whom held up a mic to the crowd and yelled: "Hey! How about a big shout-out to Glenn Beck?" It was like watching a bunch of cheerleaders at a Big Ten football game rather than watching journalists ply their trade.

How anybody can watch that network and think they are getting an objective, comprehensive view of reality is simply amazing. Fox viewers live in one gigantic cyber-bubble.
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Re: Health care the way it should be

Post by lost cause » Oct Wed 14, 2009 12:15 pm

Are they really any different then CNN who is now devoting time to fact check Saturday Night Lives parody's of Barack Obama when they didn't do it during either the Clinton or Bush Administrations.

And the CNN and ABC live coverage did any of them mention that Barack Obama does not believe they deserve equal rights like the rest of us, as they would have pointed that out if it was a republican administration.
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Re: Health care the way it should be

Post by specialties » Oct Wed 14, 2009 3:48 pm

When the Fox-sponsored "Tea Party" rally took place in Washington, it drew about 75,000 people. Not bad, but not that impressive considering the relentless promotion of the event by a 24/7 cable "news" network.
Don't kid yourself about the 75,000+ who showed up, plus 100,000s in other cities...

Make no mistake, you are awakening the genie, who by the way did not leave 400,000 pounds of trash to pick up the next day...

Basic difference in people I suppose...

It's all over, Mushy, count on it...

ABC and the communist news network missed this one>>>

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But they covered this>>>

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Gee, where they going to get their capital?? How about you, Mushy... Each to your need?? I get it... From thin air??
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Re: Health care the way it should be

Post by Phil » Oct Wed 14, 2009 9:59 pm

Marshead wrote: You guys style yourselves as the defenders of apple pie and Adam Smith, but you are simply reactionary tools shilling for a system that is broken and failing -- just ask Bob Dole, Bill Frist, Howard Baker, or Tommy Thompson. Apparently, Republicans get smarter once they are out of office (and aren't on the take from the health care lobby anymore).
Delusional. LOL

Now back to reality:
Massachusetts: The Proctology State!

Bend over, America: Here comes ObamaCare!


And we in Massachusetts should know. We've been grabbing our ankles for government-mandated insurance since 2006, and the results have been exactly the kind of stellar performance we've come to expect from state-employed bureaucrats:

* Our insurance premiums have risen twice as fast as the national average!
* We have some of the most expensive insurance rates in the country!
* Middle-class families without insurance are slammed with huge fines.
* Cheaters are gaming the system by signing up when they get sick, spending tens of thousands of other people's (a.k.a. “your') tax dollars, then dropping their coverage!
* And it's costing hundreds of millions more than we were originally promised!


The kicker? Massachusetts bureaucrats are now punting on the system and proposing a new approach that involves limiting our access to hospitals and treatments, and limiting payments to our doctors.

Controlling Massachusetts' soaring medical costs, many health care leaders believe, may require residents to give up their nearly unlimited freedom to go to any hospital and specialist they want.

“You can't reap these savings without limiting patients' choices in some way,'' said Paul Levy, chief executive of Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center. 's a huge issue, it's huge.'' Dr. James Mongan, president of Partners HealthCare, a Beth Israel Deaconess competitor, agreed that it wouldn't “work without some restriction on choice.''

The more common phrase to describe the new Massachusetts plan is “rationing.'

And just as we're figuring out how bad our system sucks, the Senate Finance Committee voted to impose it on the rest of America.

Perfect timing!

Wendy Williams of Cape Cod recently wrote an account of her life in the MA health care system for the Wall Street Journal. She and her husband have had coverage for years, but the state just declared their coverage insufficient and is demanding they either dump their affordable plan and pay much higher premiums, or pay a huge fine.

The mandate in Massachusetts was sold as something that wouldn't penalize people like my husband and me. But those political promises were only good for as long as it took to get the mandate enacted into law.

We now know that, even if you buy into the bogus ObamaCare math, middle-class families are going to get hit with a $4,800 a year health care “tax' to cover this plan. And what we in Massachusetts know is that this estimate is probably a fraction of the REAL costs.

And Deval Patrick and Barack Obama want to do this to the rest of America? Too bad they can't be sued for malpractice.

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Re: Health care the way it should be

Post by Marshead » Oct Thu 15, 2009 12:55 am

Delusional. LOL
Really, Phil? More delusional than the cyber-bubble of right-wing bloggers you live in -- and whom you shamelessly, endlessly crib from, but now don't even bother to cite? Who's your ghost writer for this crap masquerading as opinion masquerading as fact?

Anyway, I suggest you Google those retired GOP luminaries (none of them exactly backbenchers), along with the phrase "health care reform." You are in for one hell of a surprise -- that is, if you ever venture out of that bubble.

Mugs -- While they didn't have their anchors dress up like circus clowns and pass out handbills on every street corner for months in order to drum up interest in this "grass roots" movement (that's Fox's schtick), nor did they lead the crowd in cheering and chanting like any good, objective journalist would do (hint: sarcasm), CNN, MSNBC and the broadcast networks certainly did cover the teabagging of America. But the fact that you aren't thoroughly embarrassed by Fox does speak volumes...
Last edited by Marshead on Oct Thu 15, 2009 11:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Health care the way it should be

Post by specialties » Oct Thu 15, 2009 6:12 am

It's all over, Mushy, time to head for the hills...

Last years numbers are in and your boy racked up the biggest deficit year since 1945, and you think that we are going to have FREE health care now??
Will it be a circular explaining ZEN??

I also read that he stole 400,000,000,000 ( yes billion ) from medicare which explains my past month short circuit ' WILL NOT COVER '...

Your death panel seems to be implemented sooner than we expected...

Oh, and big deal, I get a check for $250 ( of my own money ) as a vote stimuli...
That should make for a premium free medicare month that doesn't cover much...
Thanks for nothing... Can we afford any more nothing??

OY!!
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Re: Health care the way it should be

Post by MCasper » Oct Thu 15, 2009 7:13 am

Marshead wrote: ... Anyway, I suggest you Google those retired GOP luminaries (none of them exactly backbenchers), along with the phrase "health care reform." You are in for one hell of a surprise ...
OK...
Swing and a Miss: A Democratic National Committee ad set to launch today was pulled from the air Sunday after former Republican presidential candidate and GOP Sen. Bob Dole complained to the White House about being mischaracterized in it. The ad features statements by Dole, former GOP Sen. Bill Frist and former Health and Human Secretary Services Secretary Tommy Thompson presumably supporting the Democrats' health care bill. Dole is part of a bipartisan group of former senators who have attempted to build consensus on the issue. He phoned White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel to complain, and the White House instructed the DNC to pull it. “The ad doesn't reflect what I was trying to do,' he told ABC News on Sunday. “I just didn't think it was fair when I've tried to be helpful in encouraging a bipartisan solution for the DNC to run an ad that I interpreted and I know others did as a backhanded comment about Republicans.'
Bill Frist , a heart surgeon who served as Senate majority leader from 2003 to 2007, said he would've voted for some health care bill, though he has some reservations about the Finance measure


Not really surprised though.
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Re: Health care the way it should be

Post by Marshead » Oct Thu 15, 2009 11:34 am

On the one hand, we have the Forum righties who staunchly defend the current system as the best of all possible health care worlds, and who staunchly fight for the status quo, and on the other hand, we have... Bob Dole, Bill Frist, Howard Baker, and Tommy Thompson:

DNC pulls health care ad after Bob Dole objects
Former Senate majority leader objects to ad's criticism of GOP leadership


Updated 6:46 p.m. ET, Sun., Oct . 11, 2009, MSNBC.com

WASHINGTON - The Democratic National Committee is canceling a television ad touting GOP support for health care reform after protests from one of the Republicans mentioned, former Senate Majority Leader Bob Dole.

The ad quotes a series of Republicans - including California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, former Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist and former Health and Human Services Secretary Tommy Thompson - saying the health care system needs to be reformed.

Dole is quoted saying: "I want this to pass. ... We've got to do something."

The ad then accuses current GOP congressional leaders as "siding with the insurance companies" to fight health care reform.

Dole told ABC News on Sunday that he objected to the ad's criticism of the current Republican leadership.
"I just didn't think it was fair, when I've tried to be helpful in encouraging a bipartisan solution, for the DNC to run an ad that I interpreted and I know others did as a backhanded comment about Republicans," Dole said.
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Re: Health care the way it should be

Post by specialties » Oct Thu 15, 2009 12:36 pm

On the one hand, we have the Forum righties who staunchly defend the current system as the best of all possible health care worlds
Include US moderates, Americans, ratepayers, and uploaders in this factoring as well, please...

No it's not as good as it might be, but it also is not yet subject to your people's eternal failure at bat either...

Can you think of a place on earth where there is higher quality, in depth, and ready available health care??

Even for people who just show up @ the E/R, stiff you and keep walking??

Now you want to turn health care into another 'social security' program or post office... Go away, ya bother US...
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Re: Health care the way it should be

Post by MCasper » Oct Thu 15, 2009 8:31 pm

Marshead wrote:On the one hand, we have the Forum righties who staunchly defend the current system as the best of all possible health care worlds,
Mindless Straw Man ALERT!
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Re: Health care the way it should be

Post by Phil » Oct Fri 16, 2009 11:08 am

Marshead wrote:On the one hand, we have the Forum righties who staunchly defend the current system as the best of all possible health care worlds, and who staunchly fight for the status quo
Let's be clear here, I'm for health care reform. The king the Heritage Foundation and Cato institute and other conservatives support. The kind that fixes the current system and makes health care insurance less expensive.

"Health care the way it should be"? so called Obamacare is going to make health care MORE expensive and buried under a federal Bureaucracy. Which moron came up with that idea? Somewhere a village in Hawaii and Indonesia are missing the same idiot.
CBO: Obamacare Will Raise Insurance Premiums Even More than Before

* Posted October 14th, 2009 at 10.12am in Health Care.

On Friday, the last day before a long weekend due to Columbus Day and on the eve of the Finance Committee vote, the Congressional Budget Office revealed some new information about the affect of the Baucus plan on premiums for health insurance. Surprise! After the Senate Finance Committee worked on the bill, health insurance will now cost individuals and families even more than the Congressional Budget Office originally estimated. On September 22, 2009, the CBO estimated that the average premium for a single plan was $4,700 to purchase the Silver plan. Last Friday, the CBO upped their estimate by 6% to $5,000 for the same plan in the same year . Families would also see a $300 increase in health premiums from $14,700 to $15,000.

The reason for the premium increases are because businesses pass on costs and fees to businesses and customers. As the Finance Committee added more taxes to the bill, the insurance cost to many families increased. The finance committee also lowered the out of pocket premium payments for those making less than 300% of poverty. For example, a family of four with $42,000 in income would now pay $2,600 instead of $3,000 in health premiums. However, purchases of individual plans who make over three times the poverty rate will pay more under the revised Baucus plan as will families with over four times the poverty rate in income.

CBO still finds that the Baucus proposal would cause individuals who purchase single plans to pay 15-17% of their total income in health insurance if they earn between two and four times the poverty rate. Families would have to pay even more for group coverage spending 18-19% of their total family income for those with income between two and four times that of the poverty rate.

The CBO tables that were issued last Friday reveal how costs are shifted and increased during a committee markup. It is unfortunate that the new analysis was not released until the Friday before a holiday weekend, where it would go virtually unnoticed before the passage of the bill from Committee.

* Author: Rea Hederman
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Re: Health care the way it should be

Post by lost cause » Oct Fri 16, 2009 11:29 am

Marshead wrote:On the one hand, we have the Forum righties who staunchly defend the current system as the best of all possible health care worlds, and who staunchly fight for the status quo, and on the other hand, we have... Bob Dole, Bill Frist, Howard Baker, and Tommy Thompson:
We need health care reform, nobody has said we don't. What we don't need is the federal government running health care which is what you get with a government run health care.

The president has said it can't cost more then 900 billion, Harry Reid has now come out and said it will cost 2 trillion. We don't need a massive tax increase to pay for this.

Nevada has already stated that they would not be able to meet the contributions that states would be required to make into the program, which likely means other states will have the same problem. Look at Mass they are now going to be raising rates and co-pays because we can't afford our small attempt at government run health care.

And include tort reform, and malpractice insurance reform as well.
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Re: Health care the way it should be

Post by bobkat » Oct Fri 16, 2009 11:51 am

The Republicans have been trying for years to get rid of Medicare. Yes it is government program and that is why they hate it. Ask anyone who is on medicare if they like and they say yes. The real reform would be choice and open up medicare to all that want to join it. I myself would stay on my health plan (H/P). But I would have no problem if we were all tax another 3% to go to Medicare(no where else). This would allow anyone to join medicare now. This would take they un-insured and under insure out of the picture . Cost would go down for everyone. The problem is the right does not like government programs.

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Re: Health care the way it should be

Post by lost cause » Oct Fri 16, 2009 12:00 pm

bobkat wrote:The Republicans have been trying for years to get rid of Medicare. Yes it is government program and that is why they hate it. Ask anyone who is on medicare if they like and they say yes. The real reform would be choice and open up medicare to all that want to join it. I myself would stay on my health plan (H/P). But I would have no problem if we were all tax another 3% to go to Medicare(no where else). This would allow anyone to join medicare now. This would take they un-insured and under insure out of the picture . Cost would go down for everyone. The problem is the right does not like government programs.
Medicare is chronically underfunded and is rampant with corruption, that is not going to improve by adding more people to the medicare rolls. If you want to open up medicare to those who are also eligible for programs like SCHIP (which is fine) then tell us how you are going to fund it and properly manage it. But allowing the government to just become another member of the already crowded health care field is a mistake, it is not just the cost of the medical bills, but the massive expansion of government employee's you are going to have to have to manage it.
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Re: Health care the way it should be

Post by specialties » Oct Fri 16, 2009 12:10 pm

bobkat,

What you need to do is come out into the private sector and work the real world for a bit, then you might even understand Sam@walsmart.biz

We need your 'progressive' pogroms like we need more white slavery...
Why do progressives consider themselves even smarter than liberials???

Who told you that??
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Re: Health care the way it should be

Post by MCasper » Oct Fri 16, 2009 1:56 pm

bobkat wrote:The Republicans have been trying for years to get rid of Medicare. ...
Unbelievable WHOPPER ALERT

First ...

A (slim) Majority of Republicans voted FOR Medicare back in 1965

HOUSE

Party > YEA - NAY - NOT VOTING

Democrats > 237 - 48 - 8

Republicans > 70 - 68 - 2

Second ...

No bill has EVER come to the floor seeking to stop Medicare.

Third ...

Since its passage, there has been one major change to the benefits received by Seniors, in 2003. It was a bill moved into being by a REPUBLICAN POTUS and passed by a Republican Congress over the almost unanimous objections of Democrats.
BILL TITLE: Medicare Prescription Drug and Modernization Act


Party > Ayes - Nays - PRES - NV

Republican > 207 - 19 - 1 - 2

Democratic > 9 - 195 - 1

Independent > (Socialist) 1 (Nay)

TOTALS > 216 - 215 - 1 - 3
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Re: Health care the way it should be

Post by Marshead » Oct Fri 16, 2009 8:05 pm

Mindless Straw Man ALERT!


Warning: Yelling "Straw Man" in really big type disingenuously ignores the dozens of posts where the Forum's right-wing chorus extols the wonders of the current health care system; calls it the best on earth without hesitation, reservation or qualification; lustily trashes other countries' models as unworthy even of consideration; and defends the status quo with the fervor of Cerberus at the gates of hell.
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Re: Health care the way it should be

Post by specialties » Oct Fri 16, 2009 10:26 pm

calls it the best on earth without hesitation,
Beats anything you got or want to put us in chains over...

Slick answer, you really took that one away from ole MCas...
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Re: Health care the way it should be

Post by GoingCoastal » Nov Fri 13, 2009 10:49 am

On the one hand, we have the Forum righties who staunchly defend the current system as the best of all possible health care worlds, and who staunchly fight for the status quo
On the one hand we have 61% of Americans who would rather keep the current system than replace it with a government run one.

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