Flood Maps: Are we supposed to pass these?

Marshfield related issues.
Forum rules
Please Click Here To View Rules ---- To contact the administrator please email admin@southshoreforums.com.
Post Reply
clover
Resident
Resident
Posts: 1435
Joined: Oct Fri 19, 2007 10:52 am

Flood Maps: Are we supposed to pass these?

Post by clover » Mar Tue 08, 2016 12:14 pm

The latest round of maps is out and there has been no change, little change or even a worse change for the homeowners waiting for the same wonderful treatment homeowners along the South River got when last November's maps were released.

As of November, homeowners in Kent Park (lots of political ties there) and those along the north side of Ocean Street were miraculously lifted from the flood zone and base flood elevations were brought back down to 9 feet. Currently homeowners on the other side of Ocean Street are still looking at base flood elevations of 14 or 15 feet.

There's no relief in sight for some homeowners and we will be pressured to pass these maps at (reportedly) the next October Town Meeting.

Really? Should we be passing these maps? Have Town Officials told everyone the full and true story? Is there a scientific reason one end of town is worse off than the other? On December 3, 2015, Leslie Fields of Woods Hole gave a presentation where she explained that the Woods Hole appeal was successful but "there wasn't time to look at the entire coast." She showed how only 9 of 33 transects, for three towns, were appealed by her group. She repeatedly explained that FEMA is using a "different" wave setup methodology for the Green Harbor River area than Woods Hole used for the South River area. She said she would be making comments to FEMA in order to reach the goal of implementing "a consistent methodology." In her presentation, it seemed obvious she did not agree with FEMA's models and she offered NO scientific reason why some parts of the southern end of town should look the way they do.

Town officials need to come clean. Either they have failed some homeowners, or there is science to back up this "wave setup" and other factors causing these high BFEs.

Watch Leslie Fields. She starts speaking at about the 8 minute mark.
https://vimeo.com/channels/mctvgov/148266643

Gidget
Resident
Resident
Posts: 1118
Joined: Mar Mon 18, 2002 1:01 am
Location: Marshfield, MA, USA

Re: Flood Maps: Are we supposed to pass these?

Post by Gidget » Mar Tue 08, 2016 7:49 pm

How is this going to affect marshfield and it's house values? I can only assume it will be disastrous for this town. Most people seem oblivious to the seriousness of the situation. I find it unbelievable that our MA senators and congressmen are not doing more to mitigate the long-term financial costs to their constituents. There should be more meetings and candid presentations to the neighborhoods that will bear the cost of the flash d insurance. I guess they feel ignorance is bliss.

citizen
Tourist
Tourist
Posts: 180
Joined: Aug Tue 12, 2008 9:04 am

Re: Flood Maps: Are we supposed to pass these?

Post by citizen » Mar Wed 09, 2016 8:38 am

This is a terrible situation,who are the politicians that live in the now excluded areas,have any of these pols been asked ,why they are now, not in the flood zone,how fortunate for them?

Joseph
Citizen
Citizen
Posts: 4614
Joined: Jan Wed 05, 2005 1:01 am

Re: Flood Maps: Are we supposed to pass these?

Post by Joseph » Mar Wed 09, 2016 8:56 am

So, who will now take up the banner and lead the Class Action or Citizens' lawsuit against FEMA?

I have seen over and over, how 'your leaders' in town government and up through Congress will leave the citizens holding the bag.

Over and over again the citizens, the rank-and-file, have to expend their money and their time to Right the Wrongs that their 'leaders' perpetrate upon all of us. Especially in town government. In our case the Administrator keeps things tidy, sweeps crap under the rug and in effect, works to make the Selectmen 'look good.' And, it works the other way. As a reward for his efforts, the Administrator gets bonuses, allowances and plain old raises.

And the one-issue school crowd and The Party enables it all and OVER AND OVER elects the same bunch.

Anyone want to ask the recycling Insider Jim Fitzgerald what he will do as Selectman to help the folks impacted? Or, have the maps been re-redrawn to take out the amount of homes to a number just below the 'critical mass' necessary for a genuine uprising?

And the people that point out these things are derided and ridiculed. Those folks are usually the ones doing the heavy lifting and trying to work to keep government officials accountable.

(Now, get ready for 'lost cause' and 'Bridges' to chime in against this.)
Why do so many officials FEAR and kowtow to the Marshfield Airport gang?

What is the source of their power? Does it involve some kind of unseemly enterprise? A government entity?

User avatar
Bridges
Pinnacle
Pinnacle
Posts: 11302
Joined: Aug Sat 05, 2006 12:29 pm
Location: Marshfield

Re: Flood Maps: Are we supposed to pass these?

Post by Bridges » Mar Wed 09, 2016 1:14 pm

Chime in against what? I have said a number of times the maps should be accurate.

Having said that, my tag line at the bottom of each ofmy posts is still 100% accurate and applicable.

Sea levels ARE rising. Faster than they in many centuries.
And the rise is accelerating. Rapidly.

Insurance rates SHOULD rise for many, as the system is going broke. Many in this town live in spots that will be
underwater in coming decades
Scituate BOS, BU Prof and scientist Rick Murray: The only real answer is retreat. I feel for these people...They inherited their house from their great grandmother or spent a lot of money to buy it. But...we are fighting a losing battle with the sea.

specialties
Pinnacle
Pinnacle
Posts: 12178
Joined: Jun Mon 15, 2009 11:27 am

Re: Flood Maps: Are we supposed to pass these?

Post by specialties » Mar Wed 09, 2016 2:37 pm

Sea levels ARE rising. Faster than they in many centuries.
And the rise is accelerating. Rapidly.
The politician is back...

bridgy,

Did the local runway sink an inch since 1957 or did the sea rise? Or has nothing happened??
Two reliable aviation charts show the local runway as 9' MSL and 8.9' MSL respectively over 60 years...

Whats going on?? People are waking up you know... You'd better beware of creating false propaganda on us...
First it was the CHURCH, then the FAMILY, and now the NATION...

Gidget
Resident
Resident
Posts: 1118
Joined: Mar Mon 18, 2002 1:01 am
Location: Marshfield, MA, USA

Re: Flood Maps: Are we supposed to pass these?

Post by Gidget » Mar Wed 09, 2016 4:07 pm

I still don't understand how someone who believes half the town will be underwater, did support ocean shores and the airport expansion. Both properties were right in the flood plain. So the answer is to bankrupt a town and force middle class families to be forced out of their homes. Most of these people bought their homes when they were NOT in the flood plain. Also this big flood could happen many many years down the road. I propose that anyone who buys a home near ocean should take their own risk. Either search out an insurance company or pay the price. This is how it used to work.
So the govt forces people to lose their homes because they cannot afford the proposed huge insurance and that is a good thing? Just be warned that everyone will lose value in their homes not just beach areas. This will not be a desirable place to move to. This so called fix does not make sense to me.

bobkat
Pinnacle
Pinnacle
Posts: 6924
Joined: May Mon 22, 2000 1:01 am
Location: just above Vinebrook

Re: Flood Maps: Are we supposed to pass these?

Post by bobkat » Mar Wed 09, 2016 6:20 pm

Gidget wrote: So the govt forces people to lose their homes because they cannot afford the proposed huge insurance and that is a good thing? Just be warned that everyone will lose value in their homes not just beach areas. This will not be a desirable place to move to. This so called fix does not make sense to me.
Gidget the government isn't forcing anyone out of their home. Agree or disagree with the maps is one thing and the cost of flood insurance. What people must realize what your homeowners insurance covers. Most Homeowners plans cover natural water damage if it is in the form of rain or snow. It doesn't cover water coming from the earth , rivers or ocean better know as a flood. The people that requiring you to buy Flood insurance is the mortgage company . Since they require you to have Homeowners and now if you are in a flood zone they are going to make you get flood insurance. This is to cover the note on the house. If you don't have a mortgage you don't have to have homeowners or flood insurance(very risky). If you have mortgage and don't get the coverage you need .Your mortgage company is going to call in the note.

Gidget
Resident
Resident
Posts: 1118
Joined: Mar Mon 18, 2002 1:01 am
Location: Marshfield, MA, USA

Re: Flood Maps: Are we supposed to pass these?

Post by Gidget » Mar Wed 09, 2016 6:46 pm

I obviously dont mean that the govt will physically force anyone out of their home. However people that bought their homes NOT in flood zones will be forced to buy. I've been told that my little house
Will eventually cost 8000 every year. I live 4 miles away from ocean but live near river. Have lived in home for 47 years and never been flooded. The most compensation for flood damaged home is 250k. Tell me that is a good deal. I own my house and I'm widowed so I will not go for home insurance. Many ordinary families will not be able to pay this sum. What happens then? Not a small amt of money. I'm thinking about selling before the max flood insurance hits. I don't see why you don't see this as punitive.

bobkat
Pinnacle
Pinnacle
Posts: 6924
Joined: May Mon 22, 2000 1:01 am
Location: just above Vinebrook

Re: Flood Maps: Are we supposed to pass these?

Post by bobkat » Mar Wed 09, 2016 8:48 pm

Gidget wrote: I don't see why you don't see this as punitive.

Gidget I didn't say it wasn't punitive. It is but you must realize the FEMA is paying out more than it takes in because of all the repeat claims. When you file a claim against your homeowners insurance. Most times after the claim is paid your insurance company increases your rates or even cancel your policy. It is called the real world. You know when a real estate company shows a home and they repeat to you LOCATION,LOCATION, LOCATION. Then the buyer should be asking what other costs come with LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION. There are many and one of them is buying could be or being put into a flood zone.

clover
Resident
Resident
Posts: 1435
Joined: Oct Fri 19, 2007 10:52 am

Re: Flood Maps: Are we supposed to pass these?

Post by clover » Mar Wed 09, 2016 9:08 pm

bobkat wrote:
Gidget wrote: I don't see why you don't see this as punitive.
Gidget I didn't say it wasn't punitive. It is but you must realize the FEMA is paying out more than it takes in because of all the repeat claims.
FEMA has NFIP Statistics online. In the nine years listed since Katrina, the NFIP has taken in $27+ Billion and has paid out $18+ Billion in claims. The NFIP has never routinely paid out more than it takes in. There is no financial reason for excessively high rates or excessively aggressive maps.
Bridges wrote:Insurance rates SHOULD rise for many, as the system is going broke.
Some see ONE storm, in the south, in ONE year that resulted in $20 Billion in "debt" as reason to claim a crisis. Taxpayers pay $1 Trillion in welfare each year, tens or hundreds of Billions in Medicare, Medicaid, and welfare fraud each year, and I just read about $30+ Billion, each year, for the "Federal Drug Control Budget" for losers who abuse "substances.".

Yeah, "the system" is going broke but it ain't the NFIP that's contributing much to the burden. At least the homeowners and taxpayers who have NFI are contributing $3.5 Billion IN to the system every year. They should get more respect.

Gidget
Resident
Resident
Posts: 1118
Joined: Mar Mon 18, 2002 1:01 am
Location: Marshfield, MA, USA

Re: Flood Maps: Are we supposed to pass these?

Post by Gidget » Mar Wed 09, 2016 10:43 pm

Unbelievable is all I can say. When I bought my home, they didn't have govt backed flood insurance but I should have anticipated that. I guess I should have been an Oracle who predicts floods, wars and economic downturns. Also does marshfield have a history of repeat flood damaged homes that take advantage of flood insurance? Well I do appreciate the kind admonitions of my neighbors who feel for me and my neighbors facing a major economic penalty. Unfortunately for the lucky ones who escaped this decision, this WILL hurt you too. Unless something is done to make the cost of flood insurance .more reasonable, all homes will lose value. I guess some of you should have anticipated that. What's to stop the flood plain from being extended further.

clover
Resident
Resident
Posts: 1435
Joined: Oct Fri 19, 2007 10:52 am

Re: Flood Maps: Are we supposed to pass these?

Post by clover » Mar Sun 13, 2016 6:52 pm

Gidget wrote: I'm thinking about selling before the max flood insurance hits.
Did you read the Mariner this week? It seems like maybe some people would like to see you move. After all, you and all the others are in great danger of sea level rise and powerful storms and are needing to get educated on the Mariner's point of view. On the other hand, when our State Rep. and our town officials and employees want to build a $2.5+ million TAXPAYER FUNDED massive oceanfront maritime center, there's no mention of these millimeters of sea water and the hurricanes. :roll:

"The bottom line is that it’s fine to get upset over the flood maps, but it’s important to get educated. Talk to your town officials, your insurance agent, and your family about your best next steps, whether that decision is to buy insurance, file a letter of map amendment, or even move."
http://marshfield.wickedlocal.com/artic ... 0/?Start=1

http://marshfield.wickedlocal.com/artic ... 3/?Start=1
No pursuit of happiness for the weary homeowner but, boy, these guys sure look happy:
Image

User avatar
Bridges
Pinnacle
Pinnacle
Posts: 11302
Joined: Aug Sat 05, 2006 12:29 pm
Location: Marshfield

Re: Flood Maps: Are we supposed to pass these?

Post by Bridges » Mar Sun 13, 2016 8:17 pm

clover wrote:Yeah, "the system" is going broke but it ain't the NFIP that's contributing much to the burden. At least the homeowners and taxpayers who have NFI are contributing $3.5 Billion IN to the system every year. They should get more respect.
That's not what the US Govt, Accounting Office said in a 2015 study of the NFIP.

And sorry if I believe the GAO over you. :roll:

http://www.gao.gov/highrisk/national_fl ... _did_study

[quote=""US GAO, 2015"]The National Flood Insurance Program (NFIP) is a key component of the federal government’s efforts to limit the damage and financial impact of floods. However, it likely will not generate sufficient revenues to repay the billions of dollars borrowed from the Department of the Treasury (Treasury) to cover claims from the 2005 and 2012 hurricanes or potential claims related to future catastrophic losses. This lack of sufficient revenue highlights what have been structural weaknesses in how the program is funded. While Congress and the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA)—the agency within the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) responsible for managing NFIP—intended that NFIP be funded with premiums collected from policyholders and not with tax dollars, the program was, by design, not actuarially sound. [/quote]


They are paying out more to cover storm losses than they are taking in through premiums. Sea level rise is only going to compound that.
The program is not actuarially sound, as premiums can not cover payouts. So says the US GAO.

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/ ... ate-change
The Guardian wrote:Sea levels have already risen about eight inches (200mm) compared to pre-industrial times. That rise has helped boost the surge and flooding damage from storms such as Sandy and Typhoon Haiyan, and dramatically increased the occurrence of everyday flooding during high tide in cities from Baltimore to Honolulu.
Scituate BOS, BU Prof and scientist Rick Murray: The only real answer is retreat. I feel for these people...They inherited their house from their great grandmother or spent a lot of money to buy it. But...we are fighting a losing battle with the sea.

clover
Resident
Resident
Posts: 1435
Joined: Oct Fri 19, 2007 10:52 am

Re: Flood Maps: Are we supposed to pass these?

Post by clover » Mar Sun 13, 2016 8:31 pm

Bridges wrote:They are paying out more to cover storm losses than they are taking in through premiums.
He states what he thinks is a fact but doesn't even check the numbers. I already wrote that the "statistics" are online. Premiums for 2006 thru 2014 total $27 billion. Payouts total $18 billion. Add the years up for your self. https://www.fema.gov/statistics-calendar-year
Each year about 5.5 million policy holders have paid in up to $3.5 billion per year. Since Katrina, the years 2006, 2007, 2009,2010, 2013, and 2014 have had payouts of LESS than $1 billion. (There is no information for 2015.)

User avatar
Bridges
Pinnacle
Pinnacle
Posts: 11302
Joined: Aug Sat 05, 2006 12:29 pm
Location: Marshfield

Re: Flood Maps: Are we supposed to pass these?

Post by Bridges » Mar Sun 13, 2016 8:46 pm

clover wrote:
Bridges wrote:They are paying out more to cover storm losses than they are taking in through premiums.
He states what he thinks is a fact but doesn't even check the numbers. I already wrote that the "statistics" are online. Premiums for 2006 thru 2014 total $27 billion. Payouts total $18 billion. Add the years up for your self. https://www.fema.gov/statistics-calendar-year
Each year about 5.5 million policy holders have paid in up to $3.5 billion per year. Since Katrina, the years 2006, 2007, 2009,2010, 2013, and 2014 have had payouts of LESS than $1 billion. (There is no information for 2015.)
Clover - I quoted the GAO. Directly. Are you thick? Do you not understand that?
Do you think you somehow magically know more than the GAO does?

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/eco ... ce-program
Scituate BOS, BU Prof and scientist Rick Murray: The only real answer is retreat. I feel for these people...They inherited their house from their great grandmother or spent a lot of money to buy it. But...we are fighting a losing battle with the sea.

clover
Resident
Resident
Posts: 1435
Joined: Oct Fri 19, 2007 10:52 am

Re: Flood Maps: Are we supposed to pass these?

Post by clover » Mar Sun 13, 2016 9:15 pm

Bridges wrote:
clover wrote:
Bridges wrote:They are paying out more to cover storm losses than they are taking in through premiums.
He states what he thinks is a fact but doesn't even check the numbers. I already wrote that the "statistics" are online. Premiums for 2006 thru 2014 total $27 billion. Payouts total $18 billion. Add the years up for your self. https://www.fema.gov/statistics-calendar-year
Each year about 5.5 million policy holders have paid in up to $3.5 billion per year. Since Katrina, the years 2006, 2007, 2009,2010, 2013, and 2014 have had payouts of LESS than $1 billion. (There is no information for 2015.)
Clover - I quoted the GAO. Directly. Are you thick? Do you not understand that?
And I just gave you a link to the official FEMA website, so we're even, nutcase. I've read FEMA's website (for years), and can see the numbers for myself. All years except 2005 are paid for. It's been reported that "the Treasury" raids the NFIP in good years, and forces the program to borrow, with interest, in bad years. There has been no "mechanism" to build a reserve for bad years. If the GAO reports debt for Sandy, then that is because of this raiding of the premiums. Whose fault is all that? The premium payers or the imcompetent politicians who allow stealing from the citizens? As I said, everyone can see that there has been $27 billion in, in the past 9 years, and $18 billion out. That's enough to pay claims with 9 billion left over to support the jobs that are created administrating the program.

The premiums payers deserve respect and the Katrina debt should probably be forgiven. The GAO and others have talked about forgiving the debt.

User avatar
Bridges
Pinnacle
Pinnacle
Posts: 11302
Joined: Aug Sat 05, 2006 12:29 pm
Location: Marshfield

Re: Flood Maps: Are we supposed to pass these?

Post by Bridges » Mar Sun 13, 2016 9:34 pm

Scituate BOS, BU Prof and scientist Rick Murray: The only real answer is retreat. I feel for these people...They inherited their house from their great grandmother or spent a lot of money to buy it. But...we are fighting a losing battle with the sea.

clover
Resident
Resident
Posts: 1435
Joined: Oct Fri 19, 2007 10:52 am

Re: Flood Maps: Are we supposed to pass these?

Post by clover » Mar Sun 13, 2016 10:39 pm

The premium payers are trying to pay their fair share. They've paid back $4.6 Billion of hurricane debt in the past 9 years, in addition to paying claims and providing billions for salaries for others, but it's not easy to pay the principal when $2.8 Billion had to go to interest.

$1.8 Billion pincipal. $2.8 Billion interest.

http://www.floods.org/ace-files/documen ... 0_2014.pdf

User avatar
Bridges
Pinnacle
Pinnacle
Posts: 11302
Joined: Aug Sat 05, 2006 12:29 pm
Location: Marshfield

Re: Flood Maps: Are we supposed to pass these?

Post by Bridges » Mar Sun 13, 2016 10:46 pm

Representatives Biggert and Waters realized that much of the NFIP’s insolvency was due to premiums that were artificially low and did not reflect the true financial risk of living in high probability flood areas. Accordingly, Biggert-Waters reassessed and updated Flood Insurance Rate Maps (FIRMs) which allowed the program to more accurately set premiums that aligned with risk based on geological changes, improvements in technology and weather modeling, and various states of public infrastructure (like the levees in New Orleans, for example). It also required FEMA to end subsidies for certain NFIP policies.

Premium increases were met with opposition from those policy holders, but Biggert-Waters offered a compromise by capping rate increases on a percentage basis in an effort to avoid rate shock. It also targeted its subsidy reductions on those policies for second homes, businesses, and properties that were repeat victims of flood damage. Unfortunately, barely two years later, Congress decided to unravel the progress that Biggert-Waters had made.
Scituate BOS, BU Prof and scientist Rick Murray: The only real answer is retreat. I feel for these people...They inherited their house from their great grandmother or spent a lot of money to buy it. But...we are fighting a losing battle with the sea.

Joseph
Citizen
Citizen
Posts: 4614
Joined: Jan Wed 05, 2005 1:01 am

Re: Flood Maps: Are we supposed to pass these?

Post by Joseph » Mar Sun 13, 2016 10:55 pm

So the bottom line is that the GAO is saying that the flood insurance premiums are not covering the payouts - BUT - they ARE LEAVING OUT THE FACT THAT THE GOVERNMENT IS RAIDING AND, ALLOWING THE POT TO BE 'SKIMMED' by insurance companies
And, 'tools' like Bridges want everyone to BELIEVE AND OBEY the propaganda.
Why do so many officials FEAR and kowtow to the Marshfield Airport gang?

What is the source of their power? Does it involve some kind of unseemly enterprise? A government entity?

Joseph
Citizen
Citizen
Posts: 4614
Joined: Jan Wed 05, 2005 1:01 am

Re: Flood Maps: Are we supposed to pass these?

Post by Joseph » Mar Sun 13, 2016 10:56 pm

No pursuit of happiness for the weary homeowner but, boy, these guys sure look happy:
Image[/quote]

Oh, God. When I think of the people that are struggling and living in terror of what the Federal and State government is about to do with the irrational and capricious and unfounded 14- 15 - 16 foot Flood Elevations...this story with this picture makes me sick.
Why do so many officials FEAR and kowtow to the Marshfield Airport gang?

What is the source of their power? Does it involve some kind of unseemly enterprise? A government entity?

Seahag
Transient
Transient
Posts: 411
Joined: Dec Tue 10, 2013 12:38 pm

Re: Flood Maps: Are we supposed to pass these?

Post by Seahag » Mar Mon 14, 2016 7:22 am

Joseph, did you listen to last week's Selectmen's meeting? If you had you would know that they and the Planning Board are hoping to work again with Leslie Fields to go back with further information to present to FEMA to change the flood regs that you are talking about. It also was a front page story in the Marshfield Mariner this past week.

Eric K
Transient
Transient
Posts: 454
Joined: Jul Wed 29, 2015 11:22 am

Re: Flood Maps: Are we supposed to pass these?

Post by Eric K » Aug Tue 16, 2016 11:09 pm

If you have not heard part of Louisiana is flooded out. About a dozen people have perished and approximately 60,000 people have signed up for FEMA assistance according to a news report.
This is an unfortunate situation that has happened and my prayers go out to those whom are affected and lost loved ones but I have the feeling there will be a major push to make sure these flood maps pass in October.

Eric K
Transient
Transient
Posts: 454
Joined: Jul Wed 29, 2015 11:22 am

Re: Flood Maps: Are we supposed to pass these?

Post by Eric K » Aug Wed 17, 2016 2:52 am

Rolling back to previous comment from Joseph. Looking at photograph many questions are coming to mind on how things work.

Eric K
Transient
Transient
Posts: 454
Joined: Jul Wed 29, 2015 11:22 am

Re: Flood Maps: Are we supposed to pass these?

Post by Eric K » Aug Wed 17, 2016 3:05 pm

According to news report only 12% of homes in Baton Rouge had flood insurance. Unsure how many homes actually were required to carry insurance and according to article the requirement to buy flood insurance if you carry a mortgage is not enforced. If this is the case and the lenders decided to hand out mortgages without nesseccary insurance then lenders should be held accountable. Possibly the flood rate payers will be ponying up and once again and the banks walk away with no responsibilty for their actions. More investigating on this needs to be done.

Seahag
Transient
Transient
Posts: 411
Joined: Dec Tue 10, 2013 12:38 pm

Re: Flood Maps: Are we supposed to pass these?

Post by Seahag » Aug Thu 18, 2016 7:38 pm

Huh??? what are you talking about????

Post Reply