New High School ?

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Swamp Yankee
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New High School ?

Post by Swamp Yankee » Jan Fri 21, 2011 5:44 pm

Marshfield
Marshfield Public School District officials will be bringing an article to special Town Meeting in April to support funding for design fees, feasibility study and the hiring of an owner's project manager for construction of a new Marshfield High School after school committee members voted to do so Jan. 19.

According to Assistant Superintendent Scott Borstel, the decision came after a meeting last week between school officials, Democratic state Rep. Jim Cantwell of Marshfield and Deputy State Treasurer Katherine Craven, executive director of the Massachusetts School Building Authority, to discuss the problems at the high school, including a failing roof, accessibility issues and cracks in floors and walls.

Borstel stated that Craven was very supportive and plans to place the high school project on an upcoming MSBA agenda to put Marshfield into the authority's funding pipeline.

If the MSBA and special Town Meeting approve the project, Borstel stated that an article would be placed on the fall special Town Meeting warrant seeking funding for the full project, and since the project would be a Proposition 2 1/2 debt exclusion, voters would also have to approve it at the ballot box.

Borstel and district Director of Business and Finance Tom Miller will be at the Jan. 24 selectmens meeting to discuss the recent developments and present the updated Statement of Interest for selectmen approval.

The annual and special Town Meeting will begin at 7 p.m. on April 25 in the gymnasium at Marshfield High School.

http://www.wickedlocal.com/marshfield/t ... TM-warrant

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Re: New High School ?

Post by jennyfromthelane » Jan Fri 21, 2011 7:09 pm

Apparently if you attend/work or just visit this establishment it is a horror (leaks, rodents, outdated electrical etc!) We need a new HS for all the students that will be attending it for the next who knows how many years--including new technology etc.
I've heard stories from students and staff--I will not vote for a new library but for a new HS which seems more important at this time.

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Re: New High School ?

Post by SandySeaShell » Jan Sat 22, 2011 12:55 am

No way! Outrageous. We should spend the money on updates and repairs to the building. Period. During the worst economic recession since the Great Depression you do not go out and commit to a multi-million dollar project and have an override. Ridiculous timing. :-Q
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Re: New High School ?

Post by lost cause » Jan Sat 22, 2011 7:23 am

Aren't new high schools running in the 100 million range, not a tax increase I want to pay for.
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Re: New High School ?

Post by Believer » Jan Sat 22, 2011 8:02 am

Typical liberals: Can't grasp the notion that America is fiscally bankrupt because our government (both Republicans and Democrats alike) continues to wildly spend more each year than the government can ever hope to collect - in tax revenue, during either the current or next year; And the current illusion that people are doing "ok" during the current economic destruction is 100% due to tons upon tons of paper money being printed out of thin air by the FED...all of it backed, not by anything other than governmet debt funded by the next 6 or 7 generations of taxpayers on top of all additional debt yet to be created during their lifetime...all paid for with dollars that are worth less with each batch of fresh "green-backs" that roll off the press...and/or that the Federal government and many of the states/local government's will largely start to default on...wiping out many of the public/private capital lending sources (except China) and driving up interest rates accross the board on all future public and private debt offerings....all ultimately paid for by you and me and our future generations.

Incuring more debt is securing our future of economic servitude (in higher interest rates, devalued dollars, increased taxes, higher unemployment, and reduced savings) to pay for the continuance and increased level of irresponsible and un-funded spending by our government.

Now is NOT the time to incur MORE Debt for a project that is not critical. Now is the time to CONSERVE and REDUCE Debt...and make do as best as possible with all that we can get by with. The current High School seems to have enough rooms, light, heat, desks, and parking. The Roof is intact. If maintenance and repairs are needed, why not undertertake a professonal estimate on what those costs would represent....BEFORE jumping up and down for Santa to bring you a NEW Present. Santa can't afford your taste in presents. And neither can you...or your neighbors. But you and your neighbors will be the ones paying for it.

Due to the fact that for every $1 we have, we each owe approximately $40 based on current government debt levels. Adding MORE non-critical debt to our collective backs is a sure way to speed up the collective breaking the backs of taxpayers for the next 3 or 4 generations.

I'd recommend a less burdensome alternative...Pay down our existing debt and live within or current means. Rather than borrowing against the proforma property tax revenue of Marshfield's future inhabitants. Start focusing on spending only what YOU, yourself can reasonably afford to service via your tax payments, not those of future generations.

2011 is the year to forgo the latest model and get another year or two or three out of your current toys.

Don't do it just to appease those fiscally responsible (aka:"cheap-skates") among us.

Do it for the Children.


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Re: New High School ?

Post by Swamp Yankee » Jan Sat 22, 2011 8:35 am

New high school, new library, sea wall repair, Trane contract. Is there anything else we need? New harbormaster building, new police station, heck lets go for it. We can all afford it, right?? :roll: These people are so out of touch its pathetic.

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Re: New High School ?

Post by Gidget » Jan Sat 22, 2011 10:10 am

This is fiscal insanity. Why would anyone propose such debt in the face of a dismal economy? As I recall, the HS is not that old - was it not built about 35 years ago. Are we going to need new town bldgs every 40 years. We will have to fix the seawalls and that cost could be millions. And Gov Patrick has announced that the state is looking at lowering aid to towns. Our prop taxes will skyrocket. It will drive many out of this town. What are they thinking. I am discouraged because I believe the TM will be stocked w/parents who are pro new HS.

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Re: New High School ?

Post by Believer » Jan Sat 22, 2011 10:41 am

Here is a very quick and simple rough calculation, based on imaginary numbers until real ones can be furnished.

$100,000,000 (Est. Project's total capital cost)

- 60,000,000 (Est. amount paid via Federal money)

= 40,000,000 (Balance to be funded by Marshfield property-owners)

[Assuming 40,000 property-owners in town:]

(40,000,000 / 40,000) = $1,000 total estimated capital cost per property owner.

Assuming a 30-year bond at 5% interest (assuming bondholders will lend to a municipality in the face of all the press about munipalities looking to file bankrupcy to cancel existing debt.)

Estimated annual servicing cost, per property owner for 30 years: Approximately $65.00 added to the current annual property tax bill...for each property owner.

AND, approximately $3,880,000 per year, for 30 years, to service the approximate $60,000,000 federal funding amount....payable by the rest of America's income tax payers, most likely to be re-directed to the Chinese Treasury, since they are one of the primary purchasers of new US government Debt.


How do you like that education?


An alternative is to solicit bids from local electricians, plumbers, masons, flooring contractors, carpenters, lighting contractors, HVAC pros, roofers to address any repairs that may be needed.

(Hint: Cost would be less, and all expendetures would remain local or relatively local...helping more local American families earn a living and not further burdening marshfield's property owners and the rest of America with unnecessarily onerous debt servicing costs for the next 30 years.)



Believer


Sorry...Had an extra zero in the earlier math. #-O

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Re: New High School ?

Post by goodguy » Jan Sat 22, 2011 12:50 pm

So what do we do with the old school, turn it into a library? After renovating the existing one? Hey, just being an optimist. Or housing for the elderly? BTW, where is the new school supposed to go?

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Re: New High School ?

Post by orange girl 93 » Jan Sat 22, 2011 1:33 pm

There is a copy of the master plan / feasibility study on the school dept web site. I think the 2 options were add/reno to the existing or build new in front of existing and tear down old when done. Don't quote me on those options- it was over a year ago that I read the study.

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Re: New High School ?

Post by lost cause » Jan Sat 22, 2011 1:39 pm

Nice numbers if you live on fantasy island. In 1990, we had just under 9K households. I don't think we expanded by 30K in the last 10 years
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Re: New High School ?

Post by Believer » Jan Sat 22, 2011 6:01 pm

lost cause wrote:Nice numbers if you live on fantasy island. In 1990, we had just under 9K households. I don't think we expanded by 30K in the last 10 years
No problemo.

Like I said, my rough calculations were "based on imaginary numbers until real ones can be furnished".

So, if the other estimates are reasonably accurate and we simply reduce the number of property owners from the 40,000 estimate I had originally plugged in...to...let's say 10,000. Then the per property-owner annual cost increases from the est. $65 I has figured to about $260....(again, assuming the other numbers I plugged in are reasonably accurate.)

Another way to look at it is that the town's approx 10,000 homowners would pay an additional $2.6 million per year...for 30 years....to service Marshfield's portion of the cost for a $100 million new high school project, assuming 60% of the project ends up being paid for with Federal money; leaving the rest of America's taxpayers with Marshfield's own special "gift"...the bill for them to pay the remaining balance of $3.8 million per year...for 30 years.


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Re: New High School ?

Post by clover » Jan Sat 22, 2011 6:10 pm

The way I figure it, we have about 9,000 property tax payers and would be paying over 20 years. So, if we're paying back $100 million (borrowing plus interest) or so over twenty years we'd need about $5 million per year. That's about $550, per year, per taxpayer.

Add in increased costs and costs not eligible for state reimbursement and I think you can add a zero to your original $65.00 calculation and be in the right ballpark. There are other factors, though, like maybe staggered borrowing in the beginning, declining debt payments, or the retirement of our previous debt exclusion that might affect our tax bills.

I asked the School Administration to give me an estimate of the impact to the average taxpayer, when this all first started. They said they didn't know the answer. Maybe now that they've had some time, they've got it all figured out and they could tell us.

Also, maybe they can clue us in on the increased costs to operate (more staff??) and maintain a larger building. Most likely we're going to need an operational override to meet the School Committee's expectations.

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Re: New High School ?

Post by Believer » Jan Sat 22, 2011 6:25 pm

And then another round of raises for the teachers should cap it all off, rather nicely...just to avert any possible displeasure that could prompt a teacher walk-out over fair salaries just before the new school is to open.

I can really imagine a whole host of educational "stimulus" poposals that the good people of Marshfield can expect to have tagged onto any vote to approve funding for a new High School in Marshfield...for the children

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Re: New High School ?

Post by clover » Jan Sat 22, 2011 6:34 pm

September 2009:
On Tuesday, Craven was in Wellesley, where the town officially broke ground on its $130-million high school. The state authority agreed to fund $44 million of the Wellesley project, and voters approved a debt exclusion override last December to cover the rest.


Just one example...but...this project is about the same size (square footage) as ours. The state reimburses for only "eligible" costs, which in Wellesley's case were only $44 million. After the town tossed around a $100 million or $110 million total pricetag, the Town Meeting vote ended up being on a $130 million project. The taxpayers are responsible for paying back about $90 million plus interest of about $45 million over 20 years.

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Re: New High School ?

Post by Believer » Jan Sat 22, 2011 7:21 pm

clover wrote:September 2009:
On Tuesday, Craven was in Wellesley, where the town officially broke ground on its $130-million high school. The state authority agreed to fund $44 million of the Wellesley project, and voters approved a debt exclusion override last December to cover the rest.


Just one example...but...this project is about the same size (square footage) as ours. The state reimburses for only "eligible" costs, which in Wellesley's case were only $44 million. After the town tossed around a $100 million or $110 million total pricetag, the Town Meeting vote ended up being on a $130 million project. The taxpayers are responsible for paying back about $90 million plus interest of about $45 million over 20 years.

President Hu sends the good citizens of Wellesley a warm 謝謝

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Re: New High School ?

Post by SandySeaShell » Jan Sat 22, 2011 7:43 pm

Swamp Yankee wrote:New high school, new library, sea wall repair, Trane contract. Is there anything else we need? New harbormaster building, new police station, heck lets go for it. We can all afford it, right?? :roll: These people are so out of touch its pathetic.
i like it

Oh, but you forgot to list the endless annual raises that are bankrupting us!
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Re: New High School ?

Post by SandySeaShell » Jan Sat 22, 2011 7:56 pm

As Faith Jean used to say: "Its really easy to spend OPM--other people's money."

This obsessive, irresponsible spending has to stop. There are many people in this town facing the loss of their homes...and the Schools throw this crap in our faces!! It is simply outrageous!

There needs to be more accountability and checks and balances on the spending in this town. Folks HAVE to get involved and get a handle on these spend crazy town officials.

I remember John Clifford telling the Library Building Committee: "Don't worry about the money. Don't even think about the money. We can get it. We can go to Town Meeting and they will approve it. So worrying about the money is not your problem." This was back when we had a big rainy day fund---which the powers-that-be promptly pissed away on annual raises.

Remember the Town Hall's mindset in dealing with the town officials:

"Don't worry about the money!"
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Re: New High School ?

Post by goodguy » Jan Sun 23, 2011 12:10 am

Is the current building paid for? How much did it cost? My recollection is that the high school before this lasted less than 20 years, but was converted to a middle school where it lasted for a good long time, then got renovated.

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Re: New High School ?

Post by Marshfielder » Jan Sun 23, 2011 6:46 am

Folks, even if you don't have a horse in this race (or more to the point, a child in this Town), if you fail to weigh the cost of this project against the long-term impact on the Town's property values as all our neighboring communities undertake or have completed similar projects, you are being extremely foolish and short-sighted.

There are a multitude of reasons for a new Marshfield High School, even for those that want to protect their wallet.

MARSHFIELD PRIDE

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Re: New High School ?

Post by lost cause » Jan Sun 23, 2011 7:31 am

Marshfielder wrote:Folks, even if you don't have a horse in this race (or more to the point, a child in this Town), if you fail to weigh the cost of this project against the long-term impact on the Town's property values as all our neighboring communities undertake or have completed similar projects, you are being extremely foolish and short-sighted.

There are a multitude of reasons for a new Marshfield High School, even for those that want to protect their wallet.

MARSHFIELD PRIDE
It is not going to matter if you makes the taxes so high that nobody can afford to live here, now is it
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Re: New High School ?

Post by Believer » Jan Sun 23, 2011 8:03 am

Marshfielder wrote:Folks, even if you don't have a horse in this race (or more to the point, a child in this Town), if you fail to weigh the cost of this project against the long-term impact on the Town's property values as all our neighboring communities undertake or have completed similar projects, you are being extremely foolish and short-sighted.

There are a multitude of reasons for a new Marshfield High School, even for those that want to protect their wallet.

MARSHFIELD PRIDE

"MARSHFIELD PRIDE"?...by putting the town's residents further in debt...needlessly....for decades?

That's some perverted concept of "PRIDE"...


If you want to instill REAL "MARSHFIED PRIDE"...

I'd rather see us all focus, instead, on a town-wide community effort to make the repairs, ourselves. There is no reason at all that we can't all cooperate by recruiting skilled and un-skilled tradepeople, town officials, lawyers, local businesses, architects, engineers, painters, electricians, plumbers, HVAC pros, brick layers, parents and students, all volunteers (like in the Peace Corps or Habitat for Humanity)...young and old...to WORK TOGETHER to make all the repairs the school(s) may need.

I'd also hope we could count on the Marshfield Education Foundation for their professional help in offsetting whatever locally-donated funds may be collected, with solicitation for grant funding that such a community project might be eligible for...to use in purchase materials or to pay for licenses and state, local permits and fees, etc...

And if the state or Fed won't budge on giving approvals for a local volunteer-based solution...instead of public bid and union contracts....and lots of costs....then we ought to tur it into a media opportunity to rub their faces in the fact that THE Government is unwilling to allow a town to contain costs and avoid needlessly going into debt....

As for the FED's, if they won't agree, then I'd expect THEM to pick up the entire cost to do the job their way. And I'd still recommend our embarrasing the Hell out of them for bein so fiscally retarded.

THAT, Marshfielder, WOULD BE A SOURCE OF WELL EARNED "MARSHFIELD PRIDE."...Pride in ownership, pride in taking responsibility, pride in working together, pride in containing costs for the taxpayers in town....pride in taking care of what we have...without resorting to a new wave of needless spending and one side vs another side bickering over the "if's", "When's", "Where's", "How's", "How Much", "what Else's", and "Why's" of Marshfield creating another $100 Million of NEEDLESS Debt in the midst of the worst economy in America's history.

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Re: New High School ?

Post by Swamp Yankee » Jan Sun 23, 2011 8:56 am

Believer wrote: "MARSHFIELD PRIDE"?...by putting the town's residents further in debt...needlessly....for decades?

That's some perverted concept of "PRIDE"...


If you want to instill REAL "MARSHFIED PRIDE"...

I'd rather see us all focus, instead, on a town-wide community effort to make the repairs, ourselves. There is no reason at all that we can't all cooperate by recruiting skilled and un-skilled tradepeople, town officials, lawyers, local businesses, architects, engineers, painters, electricians, plumbers, HVAC pros, brick layers, parents and students, all volunteers (like in the Peace Corps or Habitat for Humanity)...young and old...to WORK TOGETHER to make all the repairs the school(s) may need.

I'd also hope we could count on the Marshfield Education Foundation for their professional help in offsetting whatever locally-donated funds may be collected, with solicitation for grant funding that such a community project might be eligible for...to use in purchase materials or to pay for licenses and state, local permits and fees, etc...

And if the state or Fed won't budge on giving approvals for a local volunteer-based solution...instead of public bid and union contracts....and lots of costs....then we ought to tur it into a media opportunity to rub their faces in the fact that THE Government is unwilling to allow a town to contain costs and avoid needlessly going into debt....

As for the FED's, if they won't agree, then I'd expect THEM to pick up the entire cost to do the job their way.

THAT, Marshfielder, WOULD BE A SOURCE OF WELL EARNED "MARSHFIELD PRIDE."...Pride in ownership, pride in taking responsibility, pride in working together, pride in containing costs for the taxpayers in town....pride in taking care of what we have...without resorting to a new wave of needless spending and one side vs another side bickering over the "if's", "When's", "Where's", "How's", "How Much", "what Else's", and "Why's" of Marshfield creating another $100 Million of NEEDLESS Debt in the midst of the worst economy in America's history.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Great Post Believer. And don't forget, state and federal money is still OUR tax money.


Marshfield Pride, is this a resurrection of Marshfield Matter? Different name, same old rhetoric: It's for the children.
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Re: New High School ?

Post by Believer » Jan Sun 23, 2011 9:11 am

FWIW:


Massachusetts School Building Authority

http://massschoolbuildings.org/guidelines/statutes


School Building Grant program

http://massschoolbuildings.org/sites/de ... _16_10.pdf

Guidelines for working with MSBA on a project

http://massschoolbuildings.org/building

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Re: New High School ?

Post by Believer » Jan Sun 23, 2011 9:25 am

If anyone would like to participate in an informal meeting to discuss the prospect of a community-based approach....similar to what I posted...let me know.

It would be easy enough to set up an initial exploratory meeting to toss around a few ideas, list possible challenges to overcome, and identify any possible next steps.

Kindly post your response on this thread or PM me, if you prefer.


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Re: New High School ?

Post by Believer » Jan Sun 23, 2011 11:20 am

Volunteers give schools a makeover

http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/breakingne ... a-makeover


By Philip Tubeza, Miko Morelos
Philippine Daily Inquirer
First Posted 06:49:00 05/25/2010

Filed Under: Schools, Education, volunteerism

MANILA, PhilippinesLooking to save billions of pesos in operating expenses, the Department of Education (DepEd) yesterday launched its Brigada Eskwela Plus program which enlists communities to clean, repair and prepare public schools for the opening of classes on June 15.

Education Secretary Mona Valisno led the week-long activity together with DepEd partners from the private sector with a kickoff caravan that visited San Joaquin Elementary School in Pasig City and Quezon City High School.

On behalf of the department, I salute the volunteers whose selfishness and willingness to help prepare our schools for the school opening have made Brigada Eskwela successful for the past seven years, Valisno said.

In 2009 alone, over seven million volunteers joined Brigada Eskwela. Various donors, particularly community-based local businesses, gave some P3.7 billion worth of donations-in-kind to public schools.
From 2003 to 2008, some P9.5 billion worth of savings in terms of maintenance, operating and other expenses (MOOE) were posted due to the assistance from volunteers who donated their time to clean school grounds and do minor repairs of school furniture.

We expect this year to have the same or even bigger savings and more volunteers. Brigada Eskwela has become a well-known brand and everybody wants to join, said DepEd Assistant Secretary Jonathan Malaya.

To maximize the partnership between schools and their communities, DepEd was implementing this year Brigada Eskwela Plus, which was launched during the term of Secretary Jesli Lapus.
The program aims to get kids in the community back in school. It also aims to contribute to the improvement of the academic performance of public schoolchildren.
Frontline initiative

Brigada Eskwela Plus is the departments frontline initiative that believes in the role of the community in improving public education, said Mari Paul Soriano, executive director of DepEd Adopt A School Program, which oversees Brigada Eskwela Plus.
Meanwhile, the National Capital Region Police Office (NCRPO) is preparing for the onset of the rainy season which is expected to start in the middle of June.
NCRPO Director Roberto Rosales said the police had improved their capability to conduct search and rescue missions should flood waters inundate Metro Manila.
We have to be ready for the kind of situations that we saw during the onslaught of Tropical Storms Ondoy and Pepeng last year, Rosales said in a statement.

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Re: New High School ?

Post by Believer » Jan Sun 23, 2011 11:22 am

Not sure what MGL states about allowing volunteers to do school renovations; But here is what I found regarding Hawaii's laws on the matter:

http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurren ... 2_0006.htm

302A-1502.6 Providers of construction or project-related professional services for the repair and maintenance of public schools; volunteer status; coordinator position established. (a) Pursuant to chapter 90, the department shall accept as volunteers qualified professional providers of construction or project-related professional services who are under contract with Hawaii 3R's. The department shall maintain a list of volunteers so accepted, and shall provide the professional providers with appropriate guidance, supervision, and control to reasonably protect members of the public from injury or damage. Once accepted as a volunteer by the department, the professional provider shall be entitled to protection from liability for volunteers under chapter 90, unless the injury or damage is caused by or is the result of the professional provider's wilful and wanton act or omission.
(b) There is established, within the department of education, a coordinator position to coordinate the public and private efforts to repair and maintain public schools; provided that the coordinator shall serve at the pleasure of the superintendent and may be established as a permanent position not subject to chapter 76. [L 2002, c 244, 2; am L 2004, c 213, 4]

Cross References

Hawaii 3R's school repair and maintenance fund, see 302A-1502.4.

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Re: New High School ?

Post by GoingCoastal » Jan Tue 25, 2011 10:38 am

This seems like something the Marshfield school authorities might want to duplicate:
NEWS FROM DUXBURY SCHOOL BUILDING COMMITTEE Jan 24, 2011

The School Building Committee invites YOU to attend an open house at Duxbury Middle School and Duxbury High School to see for yourself why a building project is being developed.

Tours of DMS and DHS “ Jan 29
9am to noon

SBC will also visit some of the model schools that feature designs that will be considered for Duxburys project. The public is invited to attend.
Joe McDonald

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Re: New High School ?

Post by Greg Crowley » Jan Tue 25, 2011 10:49 am

Believer I tried to make a volunteer corp in Marshfield and Rocco Longo explained it violated union contracts. That was the same response when I brought a violation of Town by Laws forth. I think we should look at that because we have a huge pool of talented individuals who may not have the dough but have the skill to get the jobs in town done
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Re: New High School ?

Post by SandySeaShell » Jan Wed 26, 2011 12:01 am

The estimated cost for the new high school is:

90 MILLION DOLLARS !!!!!
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Re: New High School ?

Post by pat » Jan Wed 26, 2011 7:35 am

Believer wrote:I'd rather see us all focus, instead, on a town-wide community effort to make the repairs, ourselves. There is no reason at all that we can't all cooperate by recruiting skilled and un-skilled tradepeople, town officials, lawyers, local businesses, architects, engineers, painters, electricians, plumbers, HVAC pros, brick layers, parents and students, all volunteers (like in the Peace Corps or Habitat for Humanity)...young and old...to WORK TOGETHER to make all the repairs the school(s) may need.
While this sounds like a beautiful thing to make happen, I think that the era for this sort of community spirit departed in the 80's sometime. We are deep in the era of greed these days. You might be able to get a handful of professionals that would volunteer for something like this, but it will be a small percentage of what you need.

Perhaps a creative compromise would work. They semi-volunteer at a fraction of their normal wage and then get a break in taxes for some number of years.

I think this is terrible timing to bring up a project of this magnitude. There's talk of a recovering economy, but the recovery starts at the top and trickles down to us later on. It may be years before many of us feel financially secure again. It's difficult for many people to focus on projected property values ten years into the future when they wonder if they'll still own a property at the end of this year.

And as Swamp Yankee pointed out, we work just as hard to pay for that "state" and "federal" money.

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Re: New High School ?

Post by Believer » Jan Wed 26, 2011 7:45 am

pat wrote:
Believer wrote:I'd rather see us all focus, instead, on a town-wide community effort to make the repairs, ourselves. There is no reason at all that we can't all cooperate by recruiting skilled and un-skilled tradepeople, town officials, lawyers, local businesses, architects, engineers, painters, electricians, plumbers, HVAC pros, brick layers, parents and students, all volunteers (like in the Peace Corps or Habitat for Humanity)...young and old...to WORK TOGETHER to make all the repairs the school(s) may need.
While this sounds like a beautiful thing to make happen, I think that the era for this sort of community spirit departed in the 80's sometime. We are deep in the era of greed these days. You might be able to get a handful of professionals that would volunteer for something like this, but it will be a small percentage of what you need.

Perhaps a creative compromise would work. They semi-volunteer at a fraction of their normal wage and then get a break in taxes for some number of years.

I think this is terrible timing to bring up a project of this magnitude. There's talk of a recovering economy, but the recovery starts at the top and trickles down to us later on. It may be years before many of us feel financially secure again. It's difficult for many people to focus on projected property values ten years into the future when they wonder if they'll still own a property at the end of this year.

And as Swamp Yankee pointed out, we work just as hard to pay for that "state" and "federal" money.

Fair points. Ultimately, we ned to start with a solid understanding of the facts, figures, and options before being is a position to adaquately consider what creative compromises might be viable and best represent the interests of the people of Marshfield.

I'd think the data already collected by the school committee offers a good start...But I also believe that data leaves alot of important questions unaddressed or obscured. Let's shoot for some transparency in order to evaluate what option makes the most sense for those asked to pay the bill.

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Re: New High School ?

Post by rider82 » Jan Wed 26, 2011 8:00 am

The estimate to renovate the current high school is 82 million, which is only 8 million less than the cost to build a new one. Seems the bang for the buck is new construction.

Also if the school loses it's accredidation, then diplomas issued from MHS are worthless, which in turn really hurts the town. Hopefully the town can pull togather to do the right thing.

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Re: New High School ?

Post by pat » Jan Wed 26, 2011 8:32 am

rider82 wrote:The estimate to renovate the current high school is 82 million, which is only 8 million less than the cost to build a new one. Seems the bang for the buck is new construction.
In this scenario, does "renovate" mean "transform the existing school into a new school"?

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Re: New High School ?

Post by Believer » Jan Wed 26, 2011 8:54 am

rider82 wrote:The estimate to renovate the current high school is 82 million, which is only 8 million less than the cost to build a new one. Seems the bang for the buck is new construction.

Also if the school loses it's accredidation, then diplomas issued from MHS are worthless, which in turn really hurts the town. Hopefully the town can pull togather to do the right thing.
rider82:

Which report are you refering to?

The one I found is on the Marshfield Public School website:

http://www.mpsd.org/CENTRALOFFICE/Busin ... lities.htm

By scrolling all the way down on that page, I found an estimate package posted in a series of PDF's. The one marked "Appendix A" lists the cost estimates that were prepared in 2008.

Here are the FOUR Estimates I found in that document.

APPENDIX A
Study Estimate 2-24-08

MARSHIFIELD HIGH SCHOOL BASE RENOVATION
STUDY ESTIMATE 2-24-08
MARSHFIELD, MA
Project name Marshfield H.S.Base Reno
Marshfield
MA
Architect TDPC
Engineer David Berg Assoc
Estimator Essential Estimating



1. RENOVATIONS

Essential Estimating PHASE REPORT 5/12/2008
STUDY ESTIMATE 2-24-08 Marshfield H.S.Base Reno

Estimate Totals
Labor 5,761,611 67,658.093 hrs
Material 5,080,511
Subcontract 2,439,897
Equipment 156,166 7,932.064 hrs
Other 11,128
13,449,313 13,449,313
Contingency Reno Study 2,017,397 15.000 %
Total 15,466,710

2. Adjustments to Base Renovation

Essential Estimating PHASE REPORT 5/12/2008
STUDY ESTIMATE 5-4-08 Marshfield H.S.Adj BR

Estimate Totals
Labor 966,858 10,468.056 hrs
Material 132,156
Equipment 54,191 4,023.501 hrs
Other 1,127
1,154,332 1,154,332
Contingency Reno Study 173,150 15.000 %
Total 1,327,482

3. Addition to High School

Essential Estimating PHASE REPORT 5/12/2008
STUDY ESTIMATE 4-22-08 Marshfield H.S. Additions

Estimate Totals
Labor 6,924,033 70,497.173 hrs
Material 6,861,642
Equipment 316,351 8,985.523 hrs
14,102,026 14,102,026
Contingency New S.D. 1,057,652 7.500 %
Total 15,159,678 149.351 /sf

4. NEW HIGH SCHOOL

Essential Estimating PHASE REPORT 5/12/2008
STUDY ESTIMATE 5-6-08 Marshfield New H.S.

Estimate Totals
Labor 16,856,613 172,623.104 hrs
Material 16,402,786
Equipment 741,768 19,827.863 hrs
34,001,167 34,001,167
Contingency New S.D. 2,550,088 7.500 %
Total 36,551,255 125.891 /sf

As you can see, those estimates range

...from $15.5mill to complete the listed "Base Reno"

...to $1.3mill to complete the "Additions to the Base Reno".

...to $15.2mill to add in the "Additions to High School" listed.

...to $36.5mill to complete the "New School".

Is there another set of documents and estimates you can point me to that is more current and complete?


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Re: New High School ?

Post by Swamp Yankee » Jan Wed 26, 2011 9:03 am

http://www.patriotledger.com/topstories ... igh-school

School officials trying to decide what to do about the high schools need for repairs that would cost millions of dollars have received welcome advice from the state: build a new school.

Katherine Craven, director of the Massachusetts School Building Authority, told town officials this month that a proposal for a new Marshfield High School would be placed on the state boards agenda for consideration Feb. 9 or March 23.

School administrators originally went to Craven to ask if a new high school was even a possibility; if not, they needed to start making repairs with an estimated price tag of $7 million, Assistant Superintendent Scott Borstel said.

Marshfield High School, built from 1967 to 1973, is in desperate need of a new roof, officials said. Even if the new high school project is approved and on track, repairs to the roof will need to be completed.

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Re: New High School ?

Post by Believer » Jan Wed 26, 2011 9:13 am

Taxpayers will have three separate occasions to let us know what their will is, ...I like that comment.

My will is to see the complete estimate package, including the list of repairs mandated by NEASA, all requirements specified in the request for estimate including but not limited to what NEASA requires, and the itemized cost estimates for each option.

I'd also like to review the maintenance history records for the MHS...with particular interest to determining it appropriate attention has been paid to properly maintaining the building over the years...in particular, the leaky roof. And how much the "maintenance budget" has been used over the years. What is left in that budget, and how to best ensure that proper maintenance is provided to any public building, moving forward...as a preventative measure to get teh most out of our public investment in building infrastructure.

Anyone have any links to this information? I prefer to not simply rely on an officials quote in a newspaper article...I'd rather review the documentation that backs up what the official was quoted in saying.

I find it dfficult for anyone to be expected to make an "informed decision" as to whether to support building a new school or just approving renovations.. based on documentation posted by the School Committee that is now 3 years old and possible not the latest and complete documentation that has been prepared.


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Last edited by Believer on Jan Wed 26, 2011 9:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: New High School ?

Post by choudahead » Jan Wed 26, 2011 9:18 am

SandySeaShell wrote:The estimated cost for the new high school is:

90 MILLION DOLLARS !!!!!
yes but I heard on WATD yesterday that to renovate it will cost only 8 million dollars less. I say its a start now lets see if we can knock off a couple of dollars and make administrations offices a little smaller.

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Re: New High School ?

Post by Believer » Jan Wed 26, 2011 9:22 am

choudahead wrote:
SandySeaShell wrote:The estimated cost for the new high school is:

90 MILLION DOLLARS !!!!!
yes but I heard on WATD yesterday that to renovate it will cost only 8 million dollars less. I say its a start now lets see if we can knock off a couple of dollars and make administrations offices a little smaller.
According to the documentation currently posted on the MPS website, the largest estimate does not exceed $36.6mil.

Where is the documentation to back up the statement that the new school will cost $90mil?

Further, if I am reading the 2008 estimates correctlly, what is the reason that the cost to build a new school has more than doubled in 3 years?

Seems there are lots of reasonable questions; but too few answers for me to support funding a new High School. Hopefully the answers are available and can be provided.



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Re: New High School ?

Post by choudahead » Jan Sat 29, 2011 4:36 pm

I saw two pertenant articles in the patriot ledger this week, however I can only find the link for one of them. I think they should be an interesting read. The other article in the business section mentions the installation of windows and an hvac system at Governor Winslow Elementary School, $1.6 million to the low bidder, $260,000 below the estimated cost. Good for us that it is below the estimated cost, but honestly I dont remember voting for that at town meeting.
Relevent to our current quest for a new High School I felt this article, posted below, sparks some difficult questions that need to be answered by our town government. If Quincy is feeling the pinch, imagine how we will feel. Interestingly the price tag for the Quincy high school is $126 million, the projected cost for ours is near $100 million. Does that make our school 25% smaller than Quincy's?
Halfway through its first year, the new Quincy High Schools hallways are bustling with students. The classrooms are fully stocked. The cafeteria is churning out meals. The political rhetoric about its construction is history.

Now its time to pay for the school.

This year the city will begin almost three decades worth of payments on bonds it needs to cover its $54.5 million portion of the schools $126 million price tag. The state financed the rest of the construction.

Janney Montgomery Scott LLC, a Philadelphia-based investment bank, placed the winning bid last week to buy $16 million in city bonds for the high school. The city will pay back the money at 4.8 percent interest over the next 28 years.

In addition, the city is paying for the school with a $15 million loan from the state School Building Authority, which is secured at 2 percent interest and pays down annually. The rest of the citys costs on the school will be bonded out in July.

Were about where we expected to be, said Nicholas Puleo, Quincys chief financial officer. Were keeping the payments as stable as we possibly can.

The first payment to Janney Montgomery Scott “ $23,000 in principal and $680,000 in interest “ is due Dec. 1. The final payment of $945,000 in principal and $25,000 in interest is due in 2038.

Puleo said the rates are favorable, but that the city will be trying to restructure its biannual payments on the bond to spread out a forthcoming spike in payments.

According to the current schedule, Quincy will see its required payment on the high school bond increase from $400,000 in 2013 to $1 million three years later.

Were working to smooth out the spike, Puleo said.

How the city handles the high school debt will have a big effect on its financial condition for years to come and could prompt it to raise taxes significantly if the bleak economy doesnt recover soon.

Until this year, the citys spending on the Quincy High School project took up less than 1 percent of the its debt service budget. The city has only paid interest on short-term financing for the school thus far.

But in four years, after long-term financing and principal payments kick in, spending on Quincy High School debt is projected to grow to 33 percent of the debt service budget.

A key issue for the city in keeping the costs manageable is maintaining a good credit score.

The score assigned by rating agencies will determine how low of an interest rate Quincy can get on the debt market. One thing agencies will consider is how much money the city has in reserve.

Three years ago, Quincy had $16.8 million in its reserve accounts. Last year, it had $6.3 million, after spending to close annual budget gaps.

Cynthia McNerney, the citys bond adviser, warned the city council during a recent meeting that this trend could affect the citys ability to support the high school debt load.

If you looked at the last five years, from a fund balance position, the city has gone down significantly, McNerney told the council. The city needs to take an aggressive, proactive approach toward building up its reserve position if it wants to protect its interest as it goes forward and tries to do everything that it wants to do.

For now, the city appears to be in good shape. Last year, the rating service Moodys issued Quincy an Aa3 credit rating, which the service defines as high-quality.

The rating is the highest Quincy has had in at least 20 years, according to data compiled by the state Department of Revenue.

The city was briefly rated a step higher last year, but that was attributed to an industrywide shift in how the ratings are calibrated, Puleo said.


http://www.patriotledger.com/topstories ... igh-School

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