The City of Marshfield Jetport

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Re: The City of Marshfield Jetport

Post by Tara Drive » Jul Fri 29, 2016 11:44 pm

Tara Drive wrote:~~~590 THE FRIDAY 7-29-2016 NEWS DUMP / BOSTON GLOBE IS HERE **== :?:
bobkat wrote:You know I don't side with Joe P because he comes off as the boy who cried wolf too many times. But I am changing the way I think about Marshfield Airport. I don't live in the flight path (I live in Blackmount) ,but every morning there is a jet that takes off that delivers the most unpleasant noise . Lately there has been jet running their motors or taking off in the midday. I don't know how the people living next to the airport or in their flight path can live with the noise. I bet the values of those homes have not risen lately because of the airport.

Bridges you always say that Joe P should have known before buying a home on Plymouth Ave. Well Joe P isn't the only one living around the airport .I would guess that these people bought their homes before jets arrived at the airport. This noise pollution has to come to an end or the airport should be paying to noise proof peoples homes. It is just not right .
:arrow: Marshfield Airport officials look to future after court win :YMAPPLAUSE: :-B

By Jennette Barnes GLOBE CORRESPONDENT JULY 29, 2016
Marshfield Airport officials are looking to the future after a Superior Court judge ruled against a local man’s 2014 lawsuit protesting the reconstruction of the facility’s sole runway.

A consultant hired by the Marshfield Airport Commission will work on a new five-year plan for the facility, said Ann Pollard, vice president of Shoreline Aviation, the private company that operates the municipal airport.


The $15 million reconstruction moved the runway about 190 feet southwest, lengthened it by 300 feet, and created paved 300-foot safety buffers on each end.

Largely complete by the end of July 2014, the project was funded with about $13 million from the Federal Aviation Administration. The town of Marshfield contributed $200,000, and additional money came from the state.

In October 2014, Marshfield resident John Whippen sued the town’s Zoning Board of Appeals, saying the permit the board issued was invalid because a notice to abutters indicated the runway extension would occur in a business zone, when it was actually in a residential zone.

Plymouth Superior Court Judge Robert Cosgrove determined that the discrepancy was a typographical error and did not invalidate the permit. Whippen also filed his appeal far too late, the judge saidin his June 30 decision granting the board’s motion for summary judgment.

Whippen appealed about three years after the Zoning Board of Appeals issued the permit, but appeals must be filed within 20 or 90 days, depending on the circumstances, the judge said.


Robert Galvin, a lawyer for the town, said that despite the error in the abutters’ notice, the notice did detail which lots were involved in the construction, and the plans filed with the town showed the correct zoning district. “The notice was very descriptive,” he said.

A number of Marshfield residents objected to the runway reconstruction, fearing it would bring more fumes and noise, although the airport said it anticipated no appreciable increase in traffic.

Some neighbors also opposed the use of wood pilings treated with chromated copper arsenate in the soft peat beneath the runway, arguing the treatment could leach out and harm the environment.

“The whole group felt that the airport didn’t have the proper permitting in place to do what it did,” said Hugh Beagan, an airport neighbor and member of an ad-hoc group called Marshfield Citizens Against Airport Pollution.

Whippen’s attorney, Sean Beagan, who is Hugh Beagan’s son, declined through an assistant to comment.

Following the judge’s decision, airport officials are “reevaluating and contemplating what the future might hold,” Pollard said.

No new major projects are planned at the airport for five to seven years beyond maintenance and repair, she said.

Asked if the airport has considered adding a restaurant, Pollard said it has, but the property is too small. “We’ve often thought that maybe a food truck would be a fun addition,” she said.

A full-scale restaurant tends to attract extra traffic, and Marshfield Airport simply does not have the necessary parking — for planes or cars, she said.

The airport sits on roughly 135 acres, she said. It deeded about 100 unbuildable acres to Mass Audubon as part of the construction.

Plymouth Municipal Airport, in contrast, has hundreds of acres and a restaurant called “Plane” Jane’s Place. The airport website advertises some 203 acres available for non-aviation development, plus another 120 acres for future hangars.

Once an unpaved airfield in the shadow of a barn, Marshfield Airport was acquired by the town in 1965. Visitors are welcome every day, from 8 a.m. until dusk.

Adults and children visit regularly to watch planes take off and land, Pollard said. The experience gets young people interested in flight, and about 15 students under legal driving age are learning how to fly with experienced flight instructors, she said.

Members of the airport staff offer tours to school groups and clubs, and on Friday, Aug. 12, the airport will host Molly Movie Mania, a public movie night sponsored by the Molly Fitzgerald Memorial Fund. The movie is Disney’s “Planes: Fire & Rescue.” Details will be posted on the airport Facebook page.

Also for visitors, the airport aims to create a display of artifacts uncovered by archeologists on airport property prior to the construction, including cutting tools, thousands of pottery shards, and other items that show humans lived in the area 3,500 years ago, according to David Suffredini, vice chairman of the Airport Commission.

The display should be ready by the end of the year, Pollard said. The airport also plans to create a website or Web page dedicated to the artifacts and their history.

Jennette Barnes can be reached at jennettebarnes@yahoo.com.

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Re: The City of Marshfield Jetport

Post by Joseph » Jul Sat 30, 2016 7:40 am

Robert Galvin, a lawyer for the town, said that despite the error in the abutters’ notice, the notice did detail which lots were involved in the construction, and the plans filed with the town showed the correct zoning district. “The notice was very descriptive,” he said.
And this argument 'won' the case? And people wonder why the voters are DISGUSTED with our 'government'?


So many details missing from the stories that have appeared in the Mariner and the Globe articles.

How would a lot number indicate what Zone it is in?

How would saying 'The work is to occur 'AT THE AIRPORT' indicate that it was going to be done in a Residential Zone?

The 'maps' did not and do not show a delineation of Zoning Districts.

Galvin and the rest of the gang are slippery turds.

It is every person's RIGHT to ask that ZONING LAW be enforced for all land usage.
The time limits for such requests and enforcement are VERY broad or non-existent. Illegal usages can be stopped YEARS after it has begun.

Residents only found out about the incursion into a Residential Zone more than two years after the ZBA Permit was issued.

As soon as they found out they took action to find out what the heck was happening. There was NO DELAY on the part of Residents to address the controversy.

The Town of Marshfield's Zoning Officer, who is the Building Inspector would not answer a request to check and comment on the Zoning in the area of the runway EXPANSION. That's when the Resident had to Appeal to the Zoning Board, which then proceeded to Cover Their Asses and issued a bunch of gobbledygoop on why the Permit was valid.

So, the resident had to spend lots of money and time in an Appeal to the Superior Court in the futile hope of finding a judge that was not a "company man," and would give some deference and benefit of doubt to a CITIZEN OF THE UNITED STATES and JUSTICE over the government bureaucracy and special interests.

Hard to do around here!!!

Remember, the airport EXPANSION was advertised in Public Notices as work occurring in an "A" Zone and a "B" Zone. There is a "B" Zone near the airport and one could reasonably guess that perhaps there was some infrastructure - shed, wires, drainage work that might be occurring there. But, EXPANSION and construction of a RUNWAY IN A "R" RESIDENTIAL ZONE???

NO WAY!!! I guess one can NEVER, NEVER, NEVER trust Marshfield officials!!!

Even the issued Permit contained the same references to the work in an "A" Zone and a "B" Zone.

That permit was filed at the Registry of Deeds in Plymouth.

Other errors in the Permit through the process were found and corrected. Many officials of the town, on the ZBA and including Town Counsel Marzelli read the Permit - but did not see the Zoning designation "error"????

GMAFB

Look at your keyboard. Could your finger slip and type a "B" accidentally when you intended to type a "R"?

All of this chicanery was accomplished through a 'Special Permit' from the ZBA. And now this Judge rules against the PEOPLE - apparently REFUSING to give THE PEOPLE a break. Another case for the ELECTION, not appointment, of judges around here.

And yet, it seems if you are a 'connected' person living in North Marshfield, it is not so hard to get a judge to rule in your favor and AGAINST the ZBA in a case involving the abuse of the Special Permit process. - as happened recently.
Why do so many officials FEAR and kowtow to the Marshfield Airport gang?

What is the source of their power? Does it involve some kind of unseemly enterprise? A government entity?

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Re: The City of Marshfield Jetport

Post by Bridges » Jul Sun 31, 2016 3:22 pm

Have not seen any bigger jets since the runway project, but I have seen some smaller ones...

Image
Scituate BOS, BU Prof and scientist Rick Murray: The only real answer is retreat. I feel for these people...They inherited their house from their great grandmother or spent a lot of money to buy it. But...we are fighting a losing battle with the sea.

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Re: The City of Marshfield Jetport

Post by Seahag » Jul Sun 31, 2016 6:26 pm

Joe P, no one is disgusted by the decision, but they are disgusted when you call people turds, that is pretty despicable.

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Re: The City of Marshfield Jetport

Post by Eric K » Aug Mon 01, 2016 1:36 am

Seahag,
How can you say no one is disgusted with decision when a group of residents have been fighting the town on this issue?

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Re: The City of Marshfield Jetport

Post by Joseph » Aug Mon 08, 2016 9:13 pm

Well, indeed, as many predicted and expected 'larger' planes are now using Marshfield International Jetport since the sleazed EXPANSION.

At 7:37 a 'Wheels UP' turboprop, with a listed capacity of 18 seats came in--noisy, low and stinky, too.

2015 BEECHCRAFT CORP B300C
Fixed wing multi engine
(18 seats / 2 engines)
Owner: WHEELS UP PARTNERS LLC
SHELTON , CT, US
(Corporation)
Why do so many officials FEAR and kowtow to the Marshfield Airport gang?

What is the source of their power? Does it involve some kind of unseemly enterprise? A government entity?

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Re: The City of Marshfield Jetport

Post by Bridges » Aug Tue 09, 2016 8:18 pm

Joseph wrote:Well, indeed, as many predicted and expected 'larger' planes are now using Marshfield International Jetport since the sleazed EXPANSION.

At 7:37 a 'Wheels UP' turboprop, with a listed capacity of 18 seats came in--noisy, low and stinky, too.

2015 BEECHCRAFT CORP B300C
Fixed wing multi engine
(18 seats / 2 engines)
Owner: WHEELS UP PARTNERS LLC :roll:
SHELTON , CT, US
(Corporation)
1) I have seen B350s operating here for a while now. That was most certainly not the first one Does not surprise me that you are only just now noticing... :roll: I will need to look back through data from past months to figure out how long.

2) You said that you and neighbors KNEW that prop planes were operating at the airport when you moved into the neighborhood, and had no problem with them.

3) That plane could have EASILY operated here before the runway project. Not fully loaded, but most aircraft coming and going from here are not fully loaded.

TAKEOFF PERFORMANCE
TAKEOFF DISTANCE (FT) FLAPS APPROACH — SEA LEVEL
Takeoff Weight (lb) Outside Air Temperature 15°C / 59°F
15,000 3,300
14,000 2,939
13,000 2,737
12,000 2,540

So with only slightly reduced payload, it could EASILY have operated here with the old 3100 foot runways (and may have - I am not sure). Just as the Citation jets operated here for year with reduced payloads...
Scituate BOS, BU Prof and scientist Rick Murray: The only real answer is retreat. I feel for these people...They inherited their house from their great grandmother or spent a lot of money to buy it. But...we are fighting a losing battle with the sea.

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Re: The City of Marshfield Jetport

Post by Joseph » Aug Tue 09, 2016 10:06 pm

18 person capacity King Air 350 before the EXPANSION???

After EXPANSION? Yup.

Which came first?

Did Wheels UP just stumble across the EXPANDED, ENLARGED runway at Marshfield? Or, did someone want carriers like Wheels UP into Marshfield?

Was the Marshfield airport runway EXPANSION and ENLARGEMENT (Into a Residential Zone, BTW)-- about PROFITS or, safety? Inquiring minds want to know.
Why do so many officials FEAR and kowtow to the Marshfield Airport gang?

What is the source of their power? Does it involve some kind of unseemly enterprise? A government entity?

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Re: The City of Marshfield Jetport

Post by Bridges » Aug Wed 10, 2016 7:52 pm

Joseph wrote:18 person capacity King Air 350 before the EXPANSION???

After EXPANSION? Yup.
No - it is a NOT an 18 seat airplane.

https://wheelsup.com/fleet/king-air-350i/
Wheelsup wrote:Luxury interior with seating for up to 9 passengers
So, is that larger?

Let's compare to the Citation Ultra jet owned by Shoreline, that's been based here for years.

http://jetadvisors.com/cessna-citation-ultra-cabin/
TYPICAL SEATING 7
MAX SEATING CONFIGURATION 11
Sounds very comparably sized to me.

Both are ARC B-II aircraft: http://sba.airportstudy.com/files/2013/ ... Boards.pdf

Did Wheels UP just stumble across the EXPANDED, ENLARGED runway at Marshfield? Or, did someone want carriers like Wheels UP into Marshfield?
Wheels Up is NOT a "carrier".

It is a fractional ownership firm (you ever heard of NetJets, for example?). They don't have regularly scheduled service to Marshfield (or anywhere, for that matter).

The smallest aircraft they have is the B350. So LOTS of people charter the B350s at less than full capacity. Think of it like an air taxi. Most of the time you take a taxi cab, there are empty seats, aren't there?

http://beechcraft.txtav.com/en/king-air-350i
Textron Beechcraft - Beech 350i product page wrote:MAXIMUM PASSENGERS 11.
Straight from the horse's mouth.
Scituate BOS, BU Prof and scientist Rick Murray: The only real answer is retreat. I feel for these people...They inherited their house from their great grandmother or spent a lot of money to buy it. But...we are fighting a losing battle with the sea.

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Re: The City of Marshfield Jetport

Post by Bridges » Aug Wed 10, 2016 8:38 pm

Looks like they may have some older B300c aircraft. Not listed on their website, so I suspect they are replacing with B350i (which is all they talk about on website - for quite a while now). Not sure if that is what landed here (still investigating). But all they mention on the website is the 350i, which is what I posted about in previous post.
Scituate BOS, BU Prof and scientist Rick Murray: The only real answer is retreat. I feel for these people...They inherited their house from their great grandmother or spent a lot of money to buy it. But...we are fighting a losing battle with the sea.

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Re: The City of Marshfield Jetport

Post by Joseph » Aug Thu 11, 2016 5:35 pm

Bridges wrote:
Joseph wrote:18 person capacity King Air 350 before the EXPANSION???

After EXPANSION? Yup.
No - it is a NOT an 18 seat airplane.

https://wheelsup.com/fleet/king-air-350i/
Wheelsup wrote:Luxury interior with seating for up to 9 passengers
So, is that larger?

Let's compare to the Citation Ultra jet owned by Shoreline, that's been based here for years.

http://jetadvisors.com/cessna-citation-ultra-cabin/
TYPICAL SEATING 7
MAX SEATING CONFIGURATION 11
Sounds very comparably sized to me.

Another game by Bridges? MORE michigas?!?!?

At least two of the KIngAir turboprops flying into Marshfield SINCE the EXPANSION/ENLARGEMENT have been listed with 18 or 19 seat capacities.

If they have configured those planes for LARGE Lazy Boy - type chairs then the number of seats does go down.

But, you didn't know that now - did you.

But one might think that this should throw Bridges into wild fits of Manmade Global Warming RAGE!
Because these over-stuffed chairs and reduced seating translates to burning more fuel and creating more Global Warming/Greenhouse gasses per passenger mile and trip!!!

Nothing's too good for you and the rest of the .1% ers - eh?

Different standards for you and the Hillary crowd.
You're 'with HER,' right?

'Let them eat carbon credits.'

Oh, well. I wonder if this will impact Marshfield's 'Green Community' Rating?
Definitely not to be tolerated in Newton or, other more 'civilized and refined' communities.

It's just like those big 787's and such with private cabins and fullsize beds that are creating a bit of a stir in the Conservationist and AGW circles.




Bridges wrote:
Joseph wrote:Did Wheels UP just stumble across the EXPANDED, ENLARGED runway at Marshfield? Or, did someone want carriers like Wheels UP into Marshfield?
Wheels Up is NOT a "carrier".

It is a fractional ownership firm (you ever heard of NetJets, for example?). They don't have regularly scheduled service to Marshfield (or anywhere, for that matter).

The smallest aircraft they have is the B350. So LOTS of people charter the B350s at less than full capacity. Think of it like an air taxi. Most of the time you take a taxi cab, there are empty seats, aren't there?

....
Everybody see how Bridges just skips over the main point?



P.S.: BTW, Bridges: You avatar looks like it's out-of-control and going into a stall - like your "arguments."

P.P.S.: Please turn off your air conditioning - you greedy Globalist capitalist fascist pig.
Why do so many officials FEAR and kowtow to the Marshfield Airport gang?

What is the source of their power? Does it involve some kind of unseemly enterprise? A government entity?

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Re: The City of Marshfield Jetport

Post by bluewater » Aug Wed 17, 2016 11:19 pm

I did not read most of the posts in this thread (it seems like they are mostly about long-standing personal issues). But I can tell you these facts:
1) more and more larger planes are taking off and landing at the airport. and they are doing it more frequently.
2) they do not acknowledge the time of day restrictions. I don't care what the logbooks say, I can tell you for a fact that they warm up, wind down, and even take off outside of the permitted hours.
3) I live 0.6 miles away. I'm not in a flight path. Yet, it's F-ing LOUD when jets warm up! And worse when they take off.
4) I have lived here a long time. These are absolutely changes. This was not part of the environment when I bought my home. There is no doubt that I've lost home value as a result. If I were to try to sell my house I'd have to be very deceitful and would have to schedule showings very strategically.
5) the owners and operators of the airport are NOT good neighbors.
6) If it closed tomorrow I'd organize the parade.

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Re: The City of Marshfield Jetport

Post by JIMD » Aug Thu 18, 2016 6:11 am

I would organize a large protest from all the concerned people who are adversely affected by the air traffic. Go right to the airport and out onto the runway. With enough people and perseverance the jet traffic can be stopped. It will mean getting arrested for a few but in the end I really believe you can stop the jet traffic.
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Re: The City of Marshfield Jetport

Post by Joseph » Aug Thu 18, 2016 10:34 am

The airport gang probably PRAYS (To some entity), EVERY DAY that somebody will do SOMETHING, ANYTHING - that can be portrayed and publicized as a 'terrorist' or otherwise disruptive, intrusive or destructive act.

I think that they have played-up/fomented and embellished a couple of incidents already. One involved a former resident of Marshfield that allegedly threatened someone with the company leasing the airport facilities and put the entire staff of workers in fear. This incident apparently in the course of a verbal exchange on the street - away from the airport.
That accused individual had charges THROWN OUT and then, on the 'threat' charge was found NOT GUILTY in a trial concluded last week.

Afterall, it was the airport manager (Paid by Shoreline) Mr. Dineen that announced over a year ago that Federal authorities had been notified of such concerns and that the airport AND "the community" were now having 'enhanced' security measures applied to them.
(They must be very confident in their connections at the FAA, FBI, DHS, etc that those agencies will put Marshfield airport's cranky neighbors higher up on the list of 'threats' than Radical Islamist Terrorists.)
All this apparently just because concerned citizens, impacted by and concerned about environmental destruction, noise, fumes, low-flying planes and the fear of accidents, have been speaking out.

The idea that the people leasing the airport facilities and the airport commission are 'good neighbors' or have a good neighbor policy and record IS A JOKE.

In my opinion our town officials- the Selectmen, the Board of Health and the Airport Commission - and let's not forget the Zoning Board - have NOT upheld their oaths to uphold the town's bylaws and the Constitution of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts and the United States. They have put the profits and other interests of a very few, ahead of the rights and valid concerns of both the local residents negatively impacted by the airport AND ahead of the rights and valid concerns of all those who want to see the environment preserved and protected.

Now keep in mind that the people that have valid and real concerns about the negative impacts of the airport face obstacles, such as:
1) Many people don't deal with these impacts - and might not even be aware of them. they might not even know that there is an airport!
2) Your politicians and officials are not putting the Rights and concerns of the residents above those of the special interest airport gang.
Your selectmen, Zoning Board, Rep. Jim Cantwell and then Sen. Bob Hedlund may think that helping with the EXPANSION and ENLARGEMENT of the the airport is simply just about 'bringing home the bacon' to their districts or, 'helping business.' They did not and do not do their homework. Jim Cantwell did attend an airport commission meeting; he did write a letter to the DEP; he did communicate with someone from the FAA; and he did bring Congressman Keating to meet a couple of neighbors of the airport (I was not invited). But each time the end result/bottom line was to give credibility to and bolster the position of the airport gang. Senator Hedlund? *crickets*
3) Your local Chamber of Commerce and many who like to think of themselves as 'pro-business' have a very narrow and selfish view in this case. "If it's good for business/property values...." as they say - it's O-K to screw the People and fill-in and pave the wetlands. I am pro-business, too - but I also know what makes this a nice place to live - AND IT'S THE ENVIRONMENT. But, increasingly, our environment and the Quality of Life are being degraded.
Last edited by Joseph on Aug Thu 18, 2016 11:03 am, edited 5 times in total.
Why do so many officials FEAR and kowtow to the Marshfield Airport gang?

What is the source of their power? Does it involve some kind of unseemly enterprise? A government entity?

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Re: The City of Marshfield Jetport

Post by JIMD » Aug Thu 18, 2016 10:39 am

It would take a lot of committed people who would not give up. Expressing frustration on the forum does jack poop
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Re: The City of Marshfield Jetport

Post by Vlad_Rap » Aug Thu 18, 2016 11:15 am

I would organize a large protest from all the concerned people who are adversely affected by the air traffic. Go right to the airport and out onto the runway. With enough people and perseverance the jet traffic can be stopped. It will mean getting arrested for a few but in the end I really believe you can stop the jet traffic.
Apply for a permit. If it is denied ask for the reasons in writing.

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Re: The City of Marshfield Jetport

Post by Eric K » Aug Thu 18, 2016 9:06 pm

Vlad rap has a good point. Who wants to step up and apply for such permit?

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Re: The City of Marshfield Jetport

Post by Vlad_Rap » Aug Fri 19, 2016 3:17 pm

Vlad rap has a good point. Who wants to step up and apply for such permit?
Someone with legal standing.

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Re: The City of Marshfield Jetport

Post by Eric K » Aug Fri 19, 2016 3:21 pm

I believe that makes sense.

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Re: The City of Marshfield Jetport

Post by Seahag » Aug Fri 19, 2016 6:44 pm

So, stop talking, and just do it.

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Re: The City of Marshfield Jetport

Post by Joseph » Aug Wed 31, 2016 10:00 am

Horrible greasy jet fuel exhaust odors in the area as a Citation JET makes a take off and landing for the regular 'run' to/from Pennsylvania this morning. (Take off at about 7:00; return about 9:50.)
Why do so many officials FEAR and kowtow to the Marshfield Airport gang?

What is the source of their power? Does it involve some kind of unseemly enterprise? A government entity?

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Re: The City of Marshfield Jetport

Post by Bridges » Aug Wed 31, 2016 11:16 am

As has been oft pointed out to you by MANY people...we wouldn't know or care...

As weren't dumb enough to knowingly buy a house right up against an airport runway.

You folks CHOSE the airport discount when you bought. Oh well...your choice. Most of us made wiser choices.
Scituate BOS, BU Prof and scientist Rick Murray: The only real answer is retreat. I feel for these people...They inherited their house from their great grandmother or spent a lot of money to buy it. But...we are fighting a losing battle with the sea.

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Re: The City of Marshfield Jetport

Post by Joseph » Aug Wed 31, 2016 12:40 pm

And ANOTHER stinky takeoff at about 11:40.

Airport/runway EXPANSION ='s

More jets.

LARGER turboprops.

Runways and taxiways CLOSER to residences.

Less buffers.

More exposure to noise, fumes and other danger.
Why do so many officials FEAR and kowtow to the Marshfield Airport gang?

What is the source of their power? Does it involve some kind of unseemly enterprise? A government entity?

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Re: The City of Marshfield Jetport

Post by Vlad_Rap » Aug Wed 31, 2016 3:19 pm

As weren't dumb enough to knowingly buy a house right up against an airport runway.
You see it's not enough to know the law these days. You must also know how those laws will likely be broken, or uh conveniently reinterpreted, sometime in the future.

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Re: The City of Marshfield Jetport

Post by Eric K » Aug Wed 31, 2016 6:55 pm

Does anyone affiliated (oversee operations, airport committee, etc.) with the airport live in the area of airport?

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Re: The City of Marshfield Jetport

Post by Bridges » Aug Wed 31, 2016 8:29 pm

Yes. And if you'd been to any airport commission meetings over the years, you'd know the answer to that.
Discussed in other meetings and minutes too.

And I found this with about 1 minute of searching.
http://www.townofmarshfield.org/Collate ... -19-12.doc
So yes, there have been folks involved with airport, who live near it...
Scituate BOS, BU Prof and scientist Rick Murray: The only real answer is retreat. I feel for these people...They inherited their house from their great grandmother or spent a lot of money to buy it. But...we are fighting a losing battle with the sea.

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Re: The City of Marshfield Jetport

Post by Bridges » Aug Wed 31, 2016 9:09 pm

Vlad_Rap wrote:
As weren't dumb enough to knowingly buy a house right up against an airport runway.
You see it's not enough to know the law these days. You must also know how those laws will likely be broken, or uh conveniently reinterpreted, sometime in the future.
Well, that's irrelevant in Joseph's case.

You see, Joseph has been complaining for years...LONG, LONG before the recent runway project.

That is, complaining incessantly after KNOWINGLY moving into a house next to said airport - something he did voluntarily, and willfully. Nobody made him do it.

Those of us with common sense, made wiser choices.

But again...not everyone close to the airport has issues with it, either.

viewtopic.php?p=462228#p462228
Gidget 12/5/2008 wrote:I live a mile away from airport and it has never bothered me as I like the sound of airplanes.
Also by Gidget around that time wrote:Frankly, I live near the airport (within 2 mi) and have not experience any undue noise or pollution
viewtopic.php?p=396813#p396813
The Pilot 12/3/2008 wrote:I don't live too far from the airport, and I've never had a problem with noise.
viewtopic.php?p=260449#p260449
Neggy 2005 wrote:I do like to hear the Citation V take off when I am sitting on my front porch.
There have been others in other threads as well.

As for the "plight" of the neighbors:

viewtopic.php?p=495266#p495266
techlacroix 6/25/2014 wrote:Yea, I am sick of the posts. I bought a house near the ocean and not near an airport. Because I didn't want to live next to an airport. Endless debates on the internet are foolish and a waste of time. I come here to find out about my community, but all I see are posts from nuts who don't have the sense to live where they can be happy.
http://southshoreforums.com/phpBB3/view ... 26#p487626
lost cause wrote:Next time dont buy a house near an airport
Also by lost cause wrote:Hey you are the clown that bought next to an airport, if you dont like it just shut up and move.
And again by lost cause wrote:The answer is No I am not concerned at all. You and others have chosen to live near the airport and must adapt to whatever happens there. I think it is pretty naive that you would believe that the airport would never modernize and adapt to the technology (modern small jets) currently being used.
lost cause wrote:I would not have chosen to live near any airport, do to the fumes, plane noise, among other things. That being said if I had chosen to live near the airport, I would not be bitching about those issues. I also would not live next door to a fire station do to the noise either, but if I didn't I wouldn't be complaining about it.
viewtopic.php?p=263588#p263588

The following is an EXCELLENT point:
Neggy wrote:My family has been summering here since 1923

we have 4 houses , 3 are close enough to the airport that I can read tail numbers as they come over the seawall

I have been watching planes take off and land here for longer than I can remember, and that is probably why I chose to learn to fly and why I decided to do it here.

BTW I am not the only aviation person on my street either.

any one of my motorcycles makes more noise than 99.999 % of the planes that come in or out of that airport.

Maybe we need to implement the George Carlin housing plan and move deaf people to the housing near airports.

And I bet none of the complainers ever fly out of Logan, TF Green, or anyplace else. If you fly commercially you are bothering someone who lives near the airport. If you feel so strongly about quality of life issues make sure the next time you want to take the kids to DisneyWorld that you drive. I so dislike the NIMBY crowd
This is true. I bet Joseph has flown out of Logan. I bet all of you complainers have flown out of Logan. And CERTAINLY you've received goods or mail that have shipped through Logan. Meaning, you've contributed to the same pollution and noise you're railing against, and bothered somebody too.

NIMBY is exactly right. You're all for aviation - WHEN IT SUITS YOUR NEEDS. :roll:[/quote]
Scituate BOS, BU Prof and scientist Rick Murray: The only real answer is retreat. I feel for these people...They inherited their house from their great grandmother or spent a lot of money to buy it. But...we are fighting a losing battle with the sea.

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Re: The City of Marshfield Jetport

Post by JIMD » Sep Thu 01, 2016 7:13 am

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environme ... f_aviation

Read the first few sentences, Bridges you're all over the map
Good Dog

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Re: The City of Marshfield Jetport

Post by Eric K » Sep Thu 01, 2016 7:19 am

Bridges, thanks for link.
I see one person ( Dorothy Mcmullen) that lives next to airport that appears no longer to be part of airport committee. Am i correct on that. Is this the only person?
Now, looking at thread you posted with past comments from people. What do you bridges and anyone else consider " near the airport ".

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Re: The City of Marshfield Jetport

Post by Bridges » Sep Thu 01, 2016 9:09 am

Eric K wrote:Bridges, thanks for link.
I see one person ( Dorothy Mcmullen) that lives next to airport that appears no longer to be part of airport committee. Am i correct on that. Is this the only person?
Now, looking at thread you posted with past comments from people. What do you bridges and anyone else consider " near the airport ".
I know she was involved in the past with the airport (can't recall what role).
I know she lives near the airport.
I have no idea if she has any current role.

I have no idea who is on the airport commission right now.
Don't really care - don't have time.

The airport commission folks are not the only people involved with the airport. There are Shoreline employees. There are airport customers - pilots, flight students, etc...

I think the link I cited above, the airport folks stated that Ann Pollard (Shoreline) lives in Green Harbor. Smart enough to live off to the side of the runway, and not a stone's throw from a runway end like Joe (and that makes ALL the difference).

Airport does not bother me - I was smart enough to not buy a house near it.
And this is true of the VAST majority of residents in this town.

The objectionable noise / fume footprint is TINY, as compared to the total land area of this town.
I have posted quotes from a number of residents who state they live near the airport, and that it does not bother them.

The term "Near the airport" is purely arbitrary. I supposed you could define it as able to sense the airport's presence on a daily basis (hear / smell planes on the ground, or see / hear / smell them taking off / landing).

Maybe a mile radius...maybe less? You got me on that one.
I could model noise using flight tracks I am logging, but unfortunately, the modeling software that the FAA uses is not free, and rather pricey.

But as MANY have pointed out - you buy a house near an airport, you must expect the potential for noise and fumes. Read all of the quotes i just posted.
Scituate BOS, BU Prof and scientist Rick Murray: The only real answer is retreat. I feel for these people...They inherited their house from their great grandmother or spent a lot of money to buy it. But...we are fighting a losing battle with the sea.

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Re: The City of Marshfield Jetport

Post by Eric K » Sep Thu 01, 2016 10:43 am

Bridges,
So it would be safe to say no one " lives near airport" that is tied into airport that has the ability to make decisions how the airport operates.
Maybe I will have to catch an airport meeting sometime.
Those quotes are before expansion of illegal runway.
So you are not sure about what the distance would be from airport to be considered " living near airport". Then we could be talking about other neighborhoods or areas of Marshfield that could be impacted by the airport.

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Re: The City of Marshfield Jetport

Post by Bridges » Sep Thu 01, 2016 11:01 am

Eric K wrote:Bridges,
So it would be safe to say no one " lives near airport" that is tied into airport that has the ability to make decisions how the airport operates.
I would call that statement complete and utter BS.

The airport exists because voters wanted it years ago. It has continued over MANY decades and votes at town meeting, because voters supported it time and again.
Those quotes are before expansion of illegal runway.
The courts disagree with you on the legality. Clearly.
So you are not sure about what the distance would be from airport to be considered " living near airport".
Then we could be talking about other neighborhoods or areas of Marshfield that could be impacted by the airport.
No. NOBODY outside of the immediate area can hear low altitude planes taking off or landing. NOBODY outside of the immediate area can smell any fumes.

I can tell you, it is a NON-issue in my neighborhood. Completely.
Scituate BOS, BU Prof and scientist Rick Murray: The only real answer is retreat. I feel for these people...They inherited their house from their great grandmother or spent a lot of money to buy it. But...we are fighting a losing battle with the sea.

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Re: The City of Marshfield Jetport

Post by Eric K » Sep Thu 01, 2016 6:13 pm

What is your term of " low altitude plane"?

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Re: The City of Marshfield Jetport

Post by Eric K » Sep Fri 02, 2016 1:37 am

I should have asked what is your description of a "low altitude plane"?

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Re: The City of Marshfield Jetport

Post by Eric K » Sep Fri 02, 2016 10:13 pm

What's the matter bridges? Someone from airport/town tell you to stop chatting?

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Re: The City of Marshfield Jetport

Post by Bridges » Sep Mon 05, 2016 5:34 pm

Eric K wrote:What's the matter bridges? Someone from airport/town tell you to stop chatting?
Umm - it's a holiday weekend.

It is quite common for folks to travel...go out and have fun...etc. Apparently you are unacquainted with this custom. :roll:

Furthermore, I have said it NUMEROUS times, and I will say it again, since many of you seem to be a little slow on the uptake.

I HAVE NO CONTACT WITH ANYONE ASSOCIATED WITH THE AIRPORT.
NOT IN AN OFFICIAL CAPACITY.
NOT IN AN UNOFFICIAL CAPACITY.

I have lived in this town almost 30 years. During that time, I can count on my fingers the total number of times I have ever set foot on airport property.

I have been to a handful of airport commission meetings, and occasional other public events they have hosted (Public Safety Day).

That is it.

No official role.
No unofficial role.
No secret communications.

My ONLY role for the town, had to due with Logan airport traffic. NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO WITH MARSHFIELD AIRPORT.

Is that now crystal clear? :roll:
Scituate BOS, BU Prof and scientist Rick Murray: The only real answer is retreat. I feel for these people...They inherited their house from their great grandmother or spent a lot of money to buy it. But...we are fighting a losing battle with the sea.

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Re: The City of Marshfield Jetport

Post by Bridges » Sep Mon 05, 2016 6:15 pm

Eric K wrote:I should have asked what is your description of a "low altitude plane"?
Well, Joseph, and a small handful of others, have complained about jets on the ground. I would say that certainly constitutes "low altitude".

And as I have said, the footprint that around the airport that would be affected by planes on the ground (smell or noise), is tiny.
Whether you look at this footprint by % of land area of the town, or by % of households affected in town...either way, the percentage is minuscule.

As for planes in the air (and we are talking jets now - Joseph and neighbors stated numerous times that they knew of prop planes decades ago, and had no problems with them)...again, the objectionable noise / fume footprint would be tiny.

We can compare to Martha's Vineyard, which is VASTLY bigger / busier than Marshfield (big enough to have noise studies / modeling done).
NOTE - this airport sees VASTLY more daily operations, with VASTLY bigger jets (including commuter jet airliners).

http://www.mvyairport.com/pdf/MVYNoiseReport.pdf

Within DNL: 60 dB .435 sq miles total, .107 sq miles off airport
Within DNL: 65 dB .196 sq miles total, .005 sq miles off airport
Day-Night Average Noise Level (DNL): Total accumulation of aircraft noise spread out uniformly throughout the day (i.e., over a 24-hour period). DNL is an annualized metric representing the noise of a typical day of the year.

To compensate for the added annoyance created by nighttime aircraft activity, DNL adds a 10-decibel weighting (a “penalty”) to night operations (between 10:00 pm and 7:00 am). The weighting incorporated in the metric equates one operation at night to 10 daytime operations.
Safe to assume that since we see VASTLY fewer daily operations, and VASTLY smaller aircraft on average, our noise contours would be smaller than this.
Scituate BOS, BU Prof and scientist Rick Murray: The only real answer is retreat. I feel for these people...They inherited their house from their great grandmother or spent a lot of money to buy it. But...we are fighting a losing battle with the sea.

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Re: The City of Marshfield Jetport

Post by Seahag » Sep Mon 05, 2016 6:33 pm

They won't get it, you're wasting your breath and time.

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Re: The City of Marshfield Jetport

Post by Bridges » Sep Mon 05, 2016 6:42 pm

Seahag wrote:They won't get it, you're wasting your breath and time.
Yes - that's been abundantly obvious for years now...
Scituate BOS, BU Prof and scientist Rick Murray: The only real answer is retreat. I feel for these people...They inherited their house from their great grandmother or spent a lot of money to buy it. But...we are fighting a losing battle with the sea.

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Re: The City of Marshfield Jetport

Post by Joseph » Sep Tue 06, 2016 8:25 am

Yeah - let's compare the Martha's Vineyard airport to Marshfield's in a couple of respects.


Notice that Bridges does not cite any noise data about Marshfield - even though he knows that it exists (Even though it is flawed and did not fully evaluate impacts.).

Now, let's look at aerial pictures.

Here's Marthas Vineyard:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.391269, ... a=!3m1!1e3

Here's Marshfield:

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.0970248 ... a=!3m1!1e3


See any differences?

Well, Marshfield is floating/wedged in a tidal marsh/inland & coastal wetlands. (Actually it's propped up on thousands of copper-arsenic-chromium-treated pilings.)
Martha's Vineyard appears to be in a relatively dry 'upland' area.

In Marshfield this means disrupted and destroyed wildlife and wildlife habitats with greasy jet exhaust (particulates, oil, etc) being sprayed onto sensitive waterways.


Residential areas?

Marshfield: Well, There are scores of houses within a few thousand feet - with most of those under approach/take-off paths. And since the EXPANSION and ENLARGEMENT of Marshfield airport the aircraft on these flight paths are consistently lower over the homes.
Also, three houses have been torn down and many others have been devalued because of the airport. This is lost tax revenue and disrupted lives. Not to mention persons with documented or claimed health issues.

Martha's Vineyard: Well, there's a transfer station (dump) and some commercial, apparently airport related buildings within a few thousand feet. Residences? You have to go much further away and relatively very few appear to be within a mile - and NOT under a flight path..

Now, Martha's Vineyard has a 5,500 foot-long runway. Marshfield has a 4,000 foot-long runway.
Can anyone guess what the airport gang in Marshfield has on their wish list when the next round of FAA grant$ is pursued?

Get it - 'seahag'?

And Eric: Notice how Bridges didn't answer your question?
Why do so many officials FEAR and kowtow to the Marshfield Airport gang?

What is the source of their power? Does it involve some kind of unseemly enterprise? A government entity?

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